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Estrangement

Dealing with estrangement - Q&A

(114 Posts)
CariGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 12-Feb-20 11:51:29

Are you feeling isolated and alone, due to being estranged/alienated from your grandchild? How do you cope with estrangement? Where can you go for support?

Jane Jackson is the founder of the Bristol Grandparents Support Group, which focuses on the rights of grandchildren to see their grandparents. She set up the group after losing contact with her grandchild when her son separated from his wife in 2007. At her first meeting six grandparents arrived at her home. To date she has been contacted by over 7,000 grandparents and there are now 13 groups across the UK.

Jane was reunited with her granddaughter in 2018.

She will be answering your questions on estrangement - leave yours on this thread before Weds 26 Feb. We will post the answers here too.

3nanny6 Sun 27-Jun-21 13:02:02

Creating a memory box in some ways could be a good idea although for me there is not much I could put in it. To buy birthday cards each year would be too much of a painful reminder of the children and as for gifts I know the children are interested in technology and like to use tablets so putting tablets away for them is not practical. I prefer to save them some money and when they are older they can get it.

I to echo everyone that says the GC are the losers in all this but so are we the GPs as every child benefits from having those around them that love them so everyone loses out in one way or another.

I do not see how I can reconcile with my daughter even if the love is there for her she has disappointed me disrespected me lied on every occasion and even put my GC at risk there has been too much water under the bridge and I see no way back.

Smileless2012 Sun 27-Jun-21 12:37:43

Creating a memory box is one way of letting your GC know that although you didn't have a relationship with them, and they were not a part of your life, they were in your heart Jaygee.

"I will cook up any cock and bull story to protect any ideas they may have of their parents being the mutts nuts!". I hope our GC, and they're the only ones we have, don't ever contact us but if they did, I certainly wouldn't lie to them about our estrangement with their father, I wouldn't discuss it.

"I have no huge desire to reconcile with my son or daughter in law at any cost. I didn't do anything wrong". I feel the same Whiff, the only difference being I have no desire whatsoever to reconcile.

Whiff Sun 27-Jun-21 11:41:03

Gramsks nope. Are you estranged from any of your children? As what you have written doesn't seem to come from experience but reading and listening to so called experts.

The only experts are the parents of children who have turned their back on them. We know how it feels. And like me are bewildered why it happened.

I echo Flygirl and Smiles our grandchildren are the losers in all this .

I have no huge desire to reconcile with my son or daughter in law at any cost. I didn't do anything wrong.

I miss my son and grandson's very much and love them. But it was his choice to cut me out of their lives not mine. The way he did it was cruel and cowardly. Not how he was brought up.

Jaygee56 Sat 26-Jun-21 17:51:59

I've been banned from seeing my beautiful 3grandchildren and my son for 4years now , they are 4,6 and8. I thought of creating memory boxes then thought better of it. Why? Because I do not want my son and his partner's utter cruelty o be carried on and ruin the children's lives as well! Ignorance is bliss and I will take It on the chin for them, if they want to see us I will cook up some cockand bull story to protect any ideas they may have of their parents being the mutts nuts! It's the least I can do.....

Marg63 Mon 17-May-21 13:34:42

No not for me

Smileless2012 Sat 13-Jun-20 10:04:33

In my experience, everything that's felt at the beginning of an estrangement doesn't go away, but does ease given time.

LeeElizabeth Fri 12-Jun-20 23:41:49

Newly estranged from my only child...Does this feeling th at you failed as a parent ever go away?

3nanny6 Fri 15-May-20 13:49:27

Hello Nanlyn : Welcome as a new member on Gransnet.

Can you look at the forums for Estrangement and I suggest you post on the one "Support" for all those dealing with the pain of Estrangement/separation. This thread does not get used as much but if you post on the other one I am sure you will get a warm welcome.

nanlyn Fri 15-May-20 08:06:53

I am a new member and i have been reading your comments with much interest i have have lost my son (actual bereavement( now i have a living bereavement due to my daughter not allowing me to see or have contact with my grandsons i would like to read your 7 point help guide please

Smileless2012 Mon 16-Mar-20 13:49:40

We've come to the same sad conclusion Flygirl and our GC like yours are the losers.

Flygirl Mon 16-Mar-20 00:41:21

No.
Sorry, but I can't relate to any of the above reasons for the estrangement in our particular case.
As far as I am aware, none of them apply to our situation. We truly do not understand why we have been alienated from our adult child and grandchildren, apart from the fact that after some research, we have come to the conclusion that our son's partner must have major problems, internal demons, whatever you may like to label them; and consequently is showing signs of covert narcissism, which is projecting on to my son. For whatever reasons, he seems to condone the very strange behaviour (possibly in fear of losing his family, so he willingly goes along with it), which portrays a very unhealthy and toxic family dynamic. It is too deep for us to deal with any more and move forward.
The losers are our darling grandsons, who are not given the opportunity to create a true relationship with this half of their family. Very sad, but it's all about control.

Gramsks Sat 14-Mar-20 04:34:04

Estranged parents often have a huge desire to reconcile with their children and grandchildren. That’s not to say there aren’t feelings of hurt, anger and frustration along the way. This information is aimed to help you to accept your situation, be kind to yourself, and find the skills and empathy required to create the outcome that you want for your relationship with your children. This guide has been put together by the Stand Alone community, and is also informed by a talk from Dr Joshua Coleman to our community in August 2014.


What are the key causes of family estrangement?

There are many reasons that family rifts develop. Some parents reject their child’s choices, whilst adult children can also reject their parent or family.

As a parent, you may be uncomfortable with your child’s sexuality, religion or lack of religion, their choice of partner or their career path. You may feel they won’t take your advice or listen to your concerns about alcohol, drugs or mental health issues. You may feel your child is fundamentally a very different person to you, which can lead to a feeling of alienation. Equally, your child may feel any of the above towards you or the family.

Your child may want to work on your relationship and may wish for you to show more empathy towards the past or the present. A number of estrangements occur when adult children enter therapy or counselling and start to get a different perspective on his or her childhood.

Marriage and divorce may play a strong role in estrangements, both for parents and for children. Dating and re-marriage may cause conflicts if they are incompatible or compete for your child’s emotional or material resources. Divorce may also cause children to see their parents as individuals, and highlight their strength and weaknesses. The entrance of another partner into the family is common instigator for more family conflict.

Your child may perceive the relationship is psychologically or physically abusive, and your continued relationship is a reminder of their suffering. This is a very difficult estrangement to navigate as it requires the parent to do a lot of work to make a heartfelt and ongoing amends.

It’s important to remember and respect the separate realities that underpin life for each family member. Your child may hold a different viewpoint, which you might feel is ‘wrong’ or influenced by another person. However, the most successful and long-lasting reconciliations start with all parties accepting and respecting the separate realities and feelings that spring from family life.

Smileless2012 Sat 29-Feb-20 09:38:32

Not sentimental at all Flygirl, just a demonstration of how much you love and miss themflowers.

Starlady Sat 29-Feb-20 03:27:54

Ohhh, Flygirl, that's beautiful!

Flygirl Fri 28-Feb-20 18:45:39

Hi Starlady! My daughter has now set up the email address for us both, and the email address would not give anything away to anyone as to identity. Only we have access and password for the time being.
I am going to just write a few lines to them from time to time, as if we were chatting in the same room (I wish). I dusted their (very outdated) photos today and gave them both a kiss....(I may may just tell them that in my little message ?). A bit sentimental I know, but it has to come from the heart. smile

Flygirl Fri 28-Feb-20 18:38:03

Thank you so much for your responses Jane, which I have only jyst seen. I am certainly very interested in your 7 step plan, so yes please, any info on that would be welcome. Please advise if you need contact details and how I can supply these to you (I'm a bit of a technophobe!). I would also like to know if there's a local support group to me in Essex. Thanks again!

Starlady Thu 27-Feb-20 04:17:33

"Bentleyfox and Flygirl my heart goes out to you and all GP's who are estranged from their GC or fear estrangement when you've got to know and love them."

Ditto!

Flygirl, thanks for explaining about the email. I realize I misunderstood before. Sorry. Now I think it's a great idea!

Bentley, my heart aches, too, for your broken relationship w/ your daughter. Please treasure the WhatsApp connection though and avoid any arguments w/ her. Are your GSs able to join in on the WhatsApp conversations as yet? If so, then I doubt their mum can poison their minds against you, they have their own experience of you. If they're not old enough yet, then, hopefully, they will be very soon.

Starlady Thu 27-Feb-20 03:58:47

Oh, and I really appreciate your point about being led by the GC.

Starlady Thu 27-Feb-20 03:55:40

Thanks for answering my question, Jane! Yours is a beautiful and moving story! Sorry you and yours had to go through estrangement at all, of course, but what a delightful reunion! I hope it's ok if I tell it my friends who are EGPs. IMO, it's very inspiring!

Yennifer Wed 26-Feb-20 20:37:56

Yes I would be happy for the rights to be had by the children not the grandparents. My children would probably never want to exercise those rights as they never had a close relationship or even much of any relationship but if they chose to see my mother as adults it would be none of my business. I would then have to hope that I have raised them strong enough to recognise and protect themselves from abusive behaviour. Honestly don't think they would reverse their decision, they remember how relieved they were to not have to be seeing her again and they remember everything they witnessed x

JaneJackson Wed 26-Feb-20 17:35:59

ForestsLakesandMountains

could this be complicated if the grandparents are parents to the other abusive parent who is no longer allowed contact with the grandchildren?

Thank you to everyone who has asked a question, can I just say that the support you give one another on this thread is fantastic, talking, writing, communicating in any way helps others so much. Your comments and support I know will be so valued.

JaneJackson Wed 26-Feb-20 17:35:18

Flygirl

I noticed that the support group in Bristol (the reason this thread was started) says on its Home page that it is mainly about the grandparents who are estranged from their GC due to the separation/divorce of their adult children, which has caused friction.

I just wanted to point out that, in many cases, the estrangement can still happen when their children are still very much together in their relationship. When this is the case, as it is in our situation, we are totally powerless to change things, as grandparents have no rights at all.

If adult children both 'agree' to ignore you and make access difficult, when they are still very much "together" in their relationship, and they manipulate situations by using their children like pawns in a game, the situation is hopeless.
I just wish I didn't feel so terribly sad all the time. Yes it certainly does help to talk. I don't want to keep harping on to friends and boring them to tears, but seeing them all enjoying normal relationships with their grandchildren is sometimes like a dagger through my heart. (My friend has a grandchild living in Hong Kong, and she sees that little boy more often than we do living 2 miles away).
Hey ho. Thanks all.

Thank you for your comment. Family breakdown can be caused for a variety of reasons separation or divorce, drug or alcohol dependancy, domestic abuse within the home, bereavement, or family fall out. Family fall out is just what you describe, and there are thousands of grandparents who
lose contact with their grandchildren as a result of their own adult children causing the problem. You say that you don’t want to keep ‘harping’ on to you friends about it, and most estranged grandparents feel the same. It is why support groups work, sitting a room where you are not judged and there is total empathy for you is a very powerful thing. It is also perfectly natural that you find it difficult when others talk about their grandchildren. No one fully understands what it is like to be apart from these precious little people, I had no idea it even happened until 12 years ago. It is terrible when people say stuff like, “well you must have done something?” Or “ Just go and knock on their door.” You and I know that is not going to happen.

JaneJackson Wed 26-Feb-20 17:33:51

Flygirl

Oh my goodness. Where do I start? Despite my son having a happy childhood (we think!) (with wonderful, warm and loving grandparents, aunts and uncles, who contributed to his life and well being, and whom he saw regularly) he and his long term partner have NEVER invited us to be part of their children's lives.
Our eldest grandson, who is autistic (but it is not discussed), is 10, and his younger brother (not autistic) is 4. For almost 10 years we have had to almost beg to see them. At best, we have been given a "time slot" for an hour, at the most, usually at really inconvenient times in the evening and when the boys are tired, before bed. (They only live 2 miles away, btw).
We have never, ever, been invited to babysit, attend a school production, pick them up from school, have them for a few hours in our home and/or take them out for the day (despite always asking, and being given endless excuses as to why we can't). Have to almost beg and negotiate to see them just once in the summer school holidays. They have never even been in our car. We probably see them 3 or 4 times a year, for an hour, and always accompanied by their father. We have asked why this should be (we both felt so inadequate) but weren't given a reason. We have only seen our eldest grandchild on 2 out of his 10 birthdays. We have never been invited to celebrate with the youngest boy on his birthday(s). My DIL's mother and sister are there every single day and have always been "trusted" to babysit daily, from birth, especially when DIL returned to work part time. They are also invited to all the "normal" events including birthdays and Xmas, as is my DIL's father, who is divorced from her mother. As you can imagine, over the years this has caused such resentment to develop within us, as we simply cannot understand why we are not wanted or even needed. We feel that we are good, honest people who could offer our gorgeous grandsons so, so much love and fun (especially as we understand autism, as my son is also on the spectrum, albeit high functioning).
They never contact us, even to ask how we are. We always have to make that first call and almost beg to see our grandchildren. My dear daughter, who is a bit younger than my son, has also tried to get him to see reason, on our behalf, and for her efforts she has also been "pushed off the radar" for daring to voice an opinion. So the 2 boys are now 'minus' a wonderful, warm, caring aunty, too, and we found out (youngest grandson let it slip) that they are not allowed to speak about her in the home, either.
If my husband and I ever do go to their house (a very rare treat) our DIL "hides" upstairs until we go. Doesn't even shout "hello" from above. At Xmas they never even enquire what we will be doing, or if we'd like to see the boys at some point. (I work shifts, sometimes away from home, and often my husband, who is 70, is totally alone). They know this but never make contact, even by phone. This last Christmas, 2019, we asked so many times when we could see our grandchildren, to at least give them their gifts, but were continually fobbed off. I had to hand over my grandsons' Xmas presents to my son, on my doorstep on Xmas Eve, as he "couldn't stop". (He didn't bring the boys with him, either, and to date, we haven't even heard if they liked their gifts). ?. No thank you's, even by phone.
However, nothing could have prepared us for a totally unexpected, vitriolic and hateful message we received from our DIL early on Boxing Day morning, accusing us of "not even caring enough to ask if the boys had had a nice Christmas" (I was still in bed when her message was written!!), and "thank goodness for her mum and sister, who give her children SO much more love than we ever could, and are apparently everything that we 'lack' ". She told us not to bother to respond to her message as she wouldn't be reading it. My son always backs his partner up, which I guess is normal, but he shows absolutely no feelings or empathy for us and makes no effort to make things right. We haven't heard from either of them since the hateful, cruel text, and have finally had to accept that after 10 years of trying, for our own health and sanity, we have to completely stand back, withdraw from this toxic situation, and let them go. We really feel something is very wrong with their whole family set-up. Something just does not sit right with us. I would go as far as to say I think that one, or both of them, have mental issues to be able to be this cruel towards us for no reason. We truly can't think of anything that we have, or have not done, other than wanting a normal relationship with them. I can only think that we are dealing with the worst kind of narcissm here. Even if we take our needs as grandparents completely out of the equation, they are actually denying their own sons the opportunity to get to know and love us, their other grandparents, and to enable us to enrich their lives. That in itself is cruel? My fear is that our darling grandsons will grow up being told such terrible lies about us and also our daughter. We have all tried so hard to become part of their lives, but, that said, we have never intruded or just "turned up" unexpectedly. We wait patiently for invites, which, of course, never come.

How on earth do we go forward with this impossible situation? How will I ever get peace inside, and sleep properly again? With zero contact, how do we let our grandsons know, that we love them dearly, and have always wanted to be part of their lives? We know we have no 'rights' but I am hurt and completely broken. My husband is more matter-of-fact and is dealing with it better, but I know he is very angry and hurt,, too.

I have to add...whenever the grandchildren have been (rarely) in our company, they are totally relaxed and at ease with us, and we have such fun and giggles, even though it's only ever for an hour or so, 3 or 4 times a year max. When we laugh, my son sits there, stoney faced. I actually asked him in October (the last time we were allowed an accompanied visit) if he ever smiles or laughs around his children? The answer? "Sometimes".... ?

We are totally at a loss to understand all this. Bereft. For me? It is almost like a bereavement. I've lost them.

Thanks for listening.

Thank you for your question. If you read my response to another question you will see that I have written that the grandchildren never forget us, and they don’t. You have spoken about what wonderful times you have had with them in the past and the laughter and the giggles, they too will
remember them. There does come a time when grandparents need to self- protect, not something many of us do! If we carry around this devastating loss, it takes over our lives. We can forget that life is still there, just different from what we expected. If we are lucky we have other family members
around us who love us and care about us, and they hate to see us suffering. We owe it to ourselves to find a way through this dark place. We have a 7 step plan called, ‘I will survive.’ Please do let me know if that might be helpful.

JaneJackson Wed 26-Feb-20 17:32:16

Funnygran

My son will be in court in three weeks time hoping for an interim contact order to see his two boys who he hasn’t seen properly since November apart from an hour in January. His soon to be ex-wife has ignored all his and my messages about having them to visit - they live in another town. The last time she replied to me she told me in no uncertain terms that grandparents have no rights. The situation isn’t helping his mental health and they have cousins here who miss them. We feel very frustrated by the situation and would love to know if there is a support group in South Yorkshire.

Thank you for your question. Firstly, I am so sorry to read that your son is going through this awful process, and I really hope he is getting support himself. His, soon to be ex wife, is right in a way, when she says grandparents have no rights. Grandparents do not have a legal right to see their grandchildren. You can apply to the court for ‘leave’ which is just another word for permission, to then apply for a Child Arrangement Order. If you decide to go down the legal route, go into it with both eyes open. You must go to a Family Lawyer, most high street lawyers will give you 20 minutes free advice. It can be very costly, very stressful with no guarantees.
The truth also is that even if you were successful, if the resident parent decided not tot urn up and the agreed time and place you're back to court. Now, there will be some grandparents who have gone to court and it has worked out ok. Running a support group for grandparents you don’t actually hear very often of the success stories. There is a link on our webpage for support groups across the UK.

JaneJackson Wed 26-Feb-20 17:30:24

Yogagirl

My estD was brainwashed by her jealous husband, so my question is; will she, my D, ever think for herself and remember how close & loving we all were. Also will she every see the damaged she has done to her daughter, my beloved granddaughter, that has had all her birth family that loved & adored her & that she loved & adored back, ripped away from her & also had her named taken from her, as she was named after me, taken by her stepdad due to his jealousy.

Thank you for your question. In most of these circumstances it is about control. So one partner controlling another, we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, and we all know how difficult relationships can be. In this technical age we all live in, all children can find out anything about their families, one sad thing for me is that when the grandchildren find out we aren’t the monsters we have been painted as, they then turn on the parent who has caused this heartbreak. They realise they have been lied to by the very people who should be protecting them. There is never any winners in this.