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Estrangement

The "abuse cycle" and other things/themes that EAC identify with.

(480 Posts)
HolyHannah Thu 05-Mar-20 05:39:48

I understand that some EP's are profoundly hurt by their adult child(ren) choice to estrange/go No Contact. How someone reacts to being hurt is very telling in my opinion.

It is one thing for EP's to call estrangement a "living bereavement" but to go so far as to have memorial services and I even read about an EP that held a mock funeral and invited all the rest of the family that was loyal to her to the 'grave-side' ceremony. She wanted to show her young grand-daughter, her daughters child, what happens when you turn your back on 'family' by lowering a box of her Uncles possessions into the ground.

Sadly, abusive parents like that take those actions as a way to make them "feel better"/'take back their control' etc. Do they think of the implications of those actions? What must that poor child have thought? Clearly son/uncle was right to walk away from his FOO and the fact that his sister 'stood' with their mom and exposed her own child to that shows how the cycle of abuse works.

The message that child received was, "If you aren't 'good enough' or behave the 'right way' (their way) then you will be disposed of/'let go' as well." What could be more terrifying to a child? A minor child who has no exit options. Hint -- nothing... The fear of being abandoned/'cast out' was constant in my world because I was taught, "You don't matter and no one cares what happens to you..."

Now if the son finds out about this 'funeral', he'll probably go, "Yeah. Goes to show what she really thinks of Me. She'd rather see me 'dead' then stop abusing Me or even examine the possibility that she might be part of the issue."

I always felt like my 'mom' wanted me to kill myself and when I read EP's talking like that I thought, "Well, the fact that they are willing to do that in effigy says to me, maybe that's really where some abusive parents DO want their goat/lesser child(ren) to be... Dead." When/IF We finally 'wake-up'/come out of the FOG, also known as our breaking point/rock bottom, we refuse to enable the abuse by tolerating/accepting the abuse any further.

I believe this is what abusive EP's mean when they say, "My child needs to own 'their part' in the estrangement." I believe abusers think their victims "part" is that they (the victim) 'allowed'/accepted the abuse for as long as they did. What a beautiful/perfect denial of reality... "My child always 'accepted' how I treated them and even 'praised' Me as a 'mom' with cards and notes and AND AND..."

Of course abused children do 'those things' that abusive parents state. It is a child's attempt to get the love they desperately crave and abusers see that as 'proof' that they were a 'good' parent. Unfortunately, many of us eventually realize they is no love to be had regardless of what we do/have done.

The attitude of "that's just how I am, take it or leave it" is a sign of immaturity. As an adult, it's your responsibility to figure out which of your traits are toxic and are negatively impactful towards other people and the ones you love, and to eventually learn how to fix them. At some point we all have to start making ourselves better individuals. If you truly believe you don't have to change anything about yourself, even at the very least the worst in you and that people will just have to deal with it, then sorry, you are still a child. -- Anonymous

Smileless2012 Fri 06-Mar-20 14:40:17

I think the sad reality for some is that there is no hope. A member of a closed site for EP's I used to go on would talk about the 'hope devil'.

She'd given up hope after many years as just having any hope at all was making her life unbearable. Having no hope, accepting that the relationship was over and would never change enabled her to begin to move on.

We're all different aren't we.

Madgran77 Fri 06-Mar-20 14:44:52

We know nothing about the estrangement and whereas I don't agree a child should have been present, there's no evidence that this P's estrangement is due to her abuse of her AC.

I agree Smileless I suppose on the point about others being involved I was thinking on a general principle rather than the specifics of this EP, but I know I didnt make that clear; sorry.

Others may well choose to join in as part of their own moving forward.

Smileless2012 Fri 06-Mar-20 14:55:14

Madgran smile.

Yennifer Fri 06-Mar-20 14:55:17

I don't know if I would ever lose hope, not that I think losing hope is wrong at all. We are all different. Im just not sure about fake funerals lol x

Madgran77 Fri 06-Mar-20 15:30:48

I think if someone needs that method to help them deal with their own personal trauma that is fine. It should not be used to manipulate others but for one's own personal recovery then each has to find their own way. We all respond so differently to trauma don't we and reach must find their own way forward.

rosecarmel Fri 06-Mar-20 15:31:16

So many things in life are by design terrifying- Even plenty of the stuff we construct in our own minds, often as a triggered response to prior frightening experiences or instinct -

Shock is a common response to estrangement- For adults and children alike- When a scapegoat makes their break, children are often a casualty of their act- The child in the OP probably has no idea why their uncle would leave, and takes on that burden as a result of the uncle's exit from the family-

It's all very intricately intertwined -

Yennifer Fri 06-Mar-20 15:52:26

I've made a new friend recently and we were talking today. She has problems with her mum, vastly different to mine but with the same result on her mental health. Actually all my close friends have mother problems, all really different. Same anxiety, depression, self esteem sort of issues in my friends. The thing is that my friends mums were alcoholics or beaten wives etc, all neglected and didn't protect their daughters. So we share stories and I shared a couple of the bad ones that I wouldn't share here because it would identify me. New friend was upset. Said that she could at least understand her mum. I have understanding for mine too tho. Even though she was deliberately cruel, I understand she was made. Once she was an innocent child. All our mothers made the choice to not get better or get help for their children. My friends and I made the choice to get better for ours. I always wonder what the difference is, why do some break cycles and others don't?

rosecarmel Fri 06-Mar-20 16:26:07

Why do some break the cycle and some dont?

Because things occur in the periphery that people fail to see because their focus is on one thing?

I know my mother broke cycles and yet ..

Greymar Fri 06-Mar-20 16:29:28

I had to break the cycle because I hated my behaviour and chose to do something about it.

rosecarmel Fri 06-Mar-20 17:35:56

I've broken cycles and behavioral patterns as well- It doesn't fix everything lol ..

Yennifer Fri 06-Mar-20 17:39:25

Like what rosecarmel? x

Norah Fri 06-Mar-20 19:28:30

Yennifer I don't know if I would ever lose hope

I believe I'd not lose hope in a reconciliation.

Yennifer Fri 06-Mar-20 19:44:43

Not with the person she is Norah, I don't think she will change, not really but there has to be hope because people like her destroy people's lives and that has to stop some time x

Smileless2012 Fri 06-Mar-20 19:45:42

I have I'm sorry to saysad.

rosecarmel Sat 07-Mar-20 00:40:48

No need to be sorry for making necessary changes, Smileless- Conditioned behaviors are products of environments, they're not a way of life someone consciously decides to live by ..

rosecarmel Sat 07-Mar-20 01:16:20

Yennifer .. I'm thinking big, like mankind .. lol

I've been listening to much more world news than I usually do, what a mess ..

While changes can be made, personally, there's no guarantee they'll amend matters between people-

ineedamum Sat 07-Mar-20 08:59:09

I also have that fear of abandonment and ending up homeless.
I didn't click it was from being taught I don't matter and nobody cares.

Smileless2012 Sat 07-Mar-20 10:28:44

ineedamumflowers you do matter, we all do.

HolyHannah Sun 08-Mar-20 18:32:38

ineedamum -- That is a very common feeling for EAC. It's not until I went through recovery that I came to understand that I do 'matter' and even if, due to their dysfunctional thinking, they do not 'care' (because they are incapable) you can "care" for yourself.

Once you learn to give yourself permission to "care" about your own feelings, without worrying about 'upsetting' the abuser, true healing can begin.

I'm not saying to ignore others' feelings, what I am saying is ignore dysfunctional thinking. If the demands of an abuser are inappropriate/uncomfortable to you, it is okay to say, "No. I'm not going to do that."

If "no" is met with any kind of over-reaction to the point of making you feel like "yes" was the only 'correct' answer, then you are probably dealing with an abuser/dysfunctional thinker. Abusers DEMAND, functional people ask and find compromises that work for both sides.

Any child abuse survivor knows the "demand in the form of a 'choice'" manipulation tactic. It's 'their way' or the "everyone is unhappy" way.

Smileless2012 Sun 08-Mar-20 19:11:40

Any child abuse survivor knows the "demand in the form of a 'choice' manipulation tactic. It's 'their way' or the "everyone is unhappy" way.

Anyone who has experienced abuse, adult or child will identify with this.

Yennifer Sun 08-Mar-20 19:56:26

HolyHannah, yes. Children are easily made into doormats who can't say no. I was in my 40s before I learnt to say no to things that were making my life hard and making me sacrifice my own family and my needs. Its not even conscious, its just a feeling of terror and must say yes x

Yennifer Sun 08-Mar-20 19:57:31

Ineedamum, you have to take care of you and love yourself. That's the love you are worthy of x

HolyHannah Mon 09-Mar-20 06:14:26

Smileless -- While the themes may be similar they are no where near the same. You are comparing apples to oranges. The ability for a parent to control/manipulate the happiness of the family unit versus their minor child(ren) to influence the family dynamics are not at all the same as adults interacting each other.

That extends to non-abusive relationships as well. Adults always hold the 'balance of power' over minors in their care. Adults who abuse children have so many more layers of 'power' with which to abuse a minor versus an adult/adult situation.

The fact that many parents, estranged or not, think that abuse they suffer/may have suffered from another adult is somehow equal to a parent/guardian abusing a child, is very telling.

The parent/child relationship starts with the parent being 100% 'in control' of their child(rens) life/world. Then, in a healthy relationship, the child grows up and the now all adult parties in the relationship build a mutually consenting/healthy adult relationship. The pendulum doesn't just swing to, now that the child is grown up they have 100% 'control' to hurt you in the "same way" that an adult can/could/did hurt a child.

This is why many EAC children talk about EP's "playing the victim". Yes, your now adult child may be 'abusing' you, but one, they learned that from the adults around them (like that fact or not) and two, there was never a power differential where the 'child' was 100% "in charge" due to your "starting status"/being the "parent"/adult before your child became an adult.

In other words, you became an adult before your child(ren) reached the same milestone. Therefore the 'immaturity'/lack of knowledge in the 'younger' shouldn't be some horrible affront that a 'real adult' can't handle rationally.

Just look at some of the comments on the www.gransnet.com/forums/estrangement/1270554-Why-you-might-be-estranged-aka-the-same-theme-attitude-of-EP-EGPs-that-EAC-understand thread.

If that thread didn't apply to you because you are not/do not identify as an EAC, then as the title stated, it is not something that you would understand. Why argue against something you don't understand/can't relate to?

Smileless2012 Mon 09-Mar-20 09:02:34

Adults don't always hold the balance of power in adult relationships if they're involved with an abuser, it is the abusive adult in that relationship who has the power.

My post yesterday at 19.11 was not arguing against the section of your post I referred too, it was in agreement and extended it to all sufferers of abuse.

I don't know what you mean by "a real adult can't handle rationally". Are you saying that an adult in an abusive relationship they're unable for whatever reason to escape from, isn't a 'real adult'?

*Why argue against something you don't understand/can't relate to?". As I've said I am not arguing against, and as someone who experienced abuse in childhood, I understand and relate.

Madgran77 Mon 09-Mar-20 09:37:28

I didn't read Smileless post as a comparison or disagreement but as agreeing with you HolyHañnah and saying that others would identify with the same point you made.