The "abuse cycle" and other things/themes that EAC identify with.

This belongs better here:

I have been thinking a lot on perspectives and the differences between EP's and AC/Child Abuse Survivors who are No Contact.

A while ago it was pointed out to me, "Child abuse/No Contact AC don't see themselves as two separate groups." and that is true from my POV.

"Adult Children DO estrange from good/loving family." says EP's and yet no EAC can be found that confirms that statement.

I read a comment the other day along the lines of, "Can't you be encouraging and supportive?" and I concluded:

Encouraging = "You didn't do anything 'wrong'."/"You don't deserve the way your AC is treating You/Estrangement."

Support = "Your child is immature, ungrateful, disrespectful etc..."

With that as the criteria for 'helping' EP's, I think it's rather clear why I'll do neither and thus I am a 'White Thinker'... There's not even grey in that attitude/thinking. I can own/admit MY 'one colored thinking' because I have truth/reality on my side and the only people who can't accept their 'one-sided' thinking are... Those that think in black.

They can't even OWN their 'one-sided' thinking... I read a disturbing thread from a bunch of EP's and these are the thoughts/beliefs:

The OP said, "Yesterday my daughter said she doesnt have time for a relationship with me. I dont want to disrespect her," etc. And she asked for advice... Some of the replies are why reconciling, in my opinion is NOT what EP's really want...

Reply - "I’m so sorry you had to experience this. Unfortunately we did too. Our son told us to get out of his life and, of course, stated his reasons why. So painful, isn’t it." -- And yet EP's claim they don't know "why" and admit over and over that they were "told" WHY but because Our legitimate reasons 'hurt' them? THEY are the 'victim'.

"I decided against a nice”of course you have your space and can contact me when you want to ”

I see a lot of these E children re connect with their parents, but it doesn’t seem easy and they don’t often seem like they are at all caring of their parents feelings." -- Yes. Never 'decide'/choose to be nice/respectful to your child (minor or adult). And then the WE aren't "caring of our parents feelings" according to THEM.

"she made an adult decision( not that she’s acting the adult) and it doesn’t include you, sadly. " -- That's both E&S as I described in the dysfunctional way earlier...

"I know what your daughter has done has got to have completely gutted you. She has rejected her parent with full force. I know it hurts deeply. You don’t deserve such treatment." -- and more of the same...

"My daughter sends me a letter, lists all her perceived faults of mine and mistreatments" -- She has been 'told' why she is estranged as well...

"if we don’t stop our children degrading and humiliating us, then that’s on us. The only way it’s going to work is if we set the boundaries and guidelines for how we want to be treated. If we don’t nothing ever is going to change. We are forever in the loop of mistreatment by them." -- And this is what "escalation of abuse" IS. 'Things' started to 'change'... Child got educated/older/married/emotionally healthier/mature etc. and was less tolerant of the 'love' their family was giving?

The abuser mentality is, "What I did in the past worked. I'll just do 'that' and add MORE..." which = Ramping UP the abuse which = AC runs further and faster AWAY.

Part 2 to follow...

Already done!

Thanks for that though.

One of the important parts of the religion is to let go of negative emotions.

It would be healthy for you if you really could let it go HolyHannah. I feel that you won't find any peace of mind until you do.

Starblaze -- I have zero 'feelings' for my 'mom'.

It would be easy to be angry about the injustice of being raised by an abuser but her "default setting" of angry was part of why she was abusive.

It's part of why I love the Jedi faith. One of the important parts of the religion is to let go of negative emotions.

I think it's part of my Autism that I am very in tune with the energy in the room. Negative energy drives me away so I get called anti-social/awkward etc. With the support of the right people I am 'fine'/normal and accommodating my 'needs' should be easily within the limits of a reasonable adult because what I ask for as support is kinda common sense stuff.

As a side note, when I explain my Autism, younger people are far more receptive/willing to help. I get more respect from strangers on the subject then my own 'family'.

Love often remains along with the loss, yes Iam that is true.

HolyHannah you have said.
Love is never abusive and if it is? IT was never love.

Parent /child relationships do break down that does not mean to say that abuse existed. Care and Love went hand in hand for my daughter she would not know abuse if it bit her on the behind.

There are posts on here about sending "unwanted" gifts once someone has estranged from you personally that is not something I would do.
To be ignored for periods of time by my daughter is common to me only when she has explored all other avenues and can get no money I am on the phone number list to ask for a money gift as her birthday is approaching.
So i am a total crap mum am I? did not bring her up correctly and oh dear it's all my fault she is in a mess.
Then I suppose the theme is that E.A.C. who knows about abuse better ring "mummy" as she always can be counted on
for a few quid at least she is good enough for that.

love often remains along with the loss Yes that's true Iam.

We only know about our own experiences, our own AC, our own parents. Not all parent/child relationships break down because of abuse so it follows that there are EP's who did and continue to love the AC that's estranged them.

Iam64

I still care about my mum. I don't want her to be unhappy. The problem I have is that I spent a great deal of my life trying and failing to be whatever it was that would make her happy with me and eventually I had to realise that, it wasn't something I could fix. My making an effort to make her happy while she made an effort to make me unhappy... Well it wasn't sustainable and it was negatively impacting me and the people who needed Me.

What possible reason do child abuse victims have to 'love' their parent(s)?

One -- those people never did 'the job' of being a parent...

Two -- my 'mom' decided she didn't love me first! If she truly loved Me then she wouldn't have abused Me.

Love is never abusive and if it is? IT was never love.

So if love is absent? It didn't start with the child. My 'mom' gets the love she gives which is NONE.

Eat ?? FML

Well if they really loved them why would they want to cause distress?

That’s not how I eat to be loved.

That word "loved" is one that came into my mind as I read the recent posts on this thread. Absent isn't it.
I hope for more than 'mutual respect' in my relationships with my adult children. I hope we love each other. Even where relationships break down, love often remains along with the loss.

Only the sender knows if a gift is sent to create an obligation or elicit a response, or simply to let the recipient know they are loved and missed.

Bibbity -- "sending something back is a form of communication. It rewards bad behaviour." -- Exactly and like this hasn't been discussed before.

No Contact is a very clear message. We want nothing. If we still wanted/hoped for something, like a healthy relationship, we'd still be around and aiming for that.

Besides... A 'gift' is just that -- something given without expectations/strings/obligations etc. otherwise it's not really a gift.

So IF an EP insists on sending a 'gift' then they need to grasp, that 'gift' regardless of what it is, does not create an obligation on their AC to do anything including interacting with them. If that cannot be accepted/respected? Don't send anything!

As I've said if you don't care that's OK then and even better if it proves you have made the right decision and that the CO is in your best interests.

I personally don’t care. But then the person doing it can’t play the victim when they continue to break someone’s boundaries. It just proves that we have made the right decision and that the CO is in our and our best interests.

Who said anyone should? You say you don't care "If they want to carry on" so that's OK then.

OK. Then why should someone take time and money out of their day to do such a pointless thing?

If they want to carry on. Then the fact is I don’t care.

The other thread shows that no acknowledgment does have an affect. It does send a clear message.

I don't see how sending something back rewards bad behaviour; it shows that it isn't wanted.

The sender of an unwanted gift has no way of knowing if it's been thrown away or kept and not having that knowledge could encourage them to send others.

If you receive something, send it back

Smiles sending something back is a form of communication. It rewards bad behaviour.

When we receive something it just goes in the bin. We didn’t ask for it. We’ve said No communication.

Your post yesterday made no mention of a "minor child .. in the care of their adult parent" HolyHannah.

Chewbacca -- The situation I am speaking of is when a minor child is in the 'care' of their adult parent.

I have made it clear that when any child becomes an adult, the only thing they should expect is mutual respect from their parent(s).

A minor child should rightfully expect and deserves positive help from their parent(s). As I said, no minor child should expect more/different water to drown in or a brick that will help you sink, as "help" from a parent.

This thread fell off my notifications again Holyhannah quick comment to put it back on, to come back to, before I fall asleep

I'm just baffled as to why, once someone has been hurt sufficiently badly enough to become estranged from someone else, why would you expect anything at all? It seems to be an unhealthy way to live; in perpetual expectation of receiving help from someone who has apparently consistently disappointed you. It's just setting yourself up for more disappointment, surely?

If you don't want to be around or engage with for example a parent, then refuse anything they give you. Why on earth would you accept it?

If you receive something, send it back and if you accepted a gift of money prior to estranging the giver, and no longer want anything to do with the person/people who gave it, pay it back.

A 'theme' I am often reminded of is the acceptance of gifts including time for free child care and financial assistance and when it is no longer required, there is no longer a desire to engage.

The 'theme' I am most recently reminded of is -- Us not wanting to be around/engage with, regardless of what 'they' give Us is somehow an affront/disrespect etc. to THEM.

I compare it to this... If I was drowning in salt-water and my 'mom' could throw me a 'life jacket' or into a pool of fresh water to save Me? She'd pick the 'different water' because if I was "good enough" I would either know how to 'swim' or I was the failure she saw Me as. Maybe I wouldn't have been a failure/drowned if when I'd said, "I'm drowning." she had passed me a vest instead of a different pool or water or a concrete brick.