What EP's need to hear from a fellow Estranged Parent.

"""Admitting a mistake/miscalculation doesn't make you all 'wrong'---That would be dysfunctional thinking

I agree but the issue for some EP's is making mistakes does make them all wrong hence their estrangement."""

Smileless, you omitted admitting- Admitting a mistake and making a mistake- Each is different-

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I haven't got time to worry about arguments at the mo. I'm a key worker as a TA, I'm still out and about doing my bit so that the more important key workers can work to heal, protect and feed us all. Everyone I see looks on the brink of tears all the time. Even the little children. We have got time now, time to really pull out the best version of ourselves because that's what we all need. Gransnet isn't on the restricted social media at work, so just trying to have a break and take my mind of things but it's impossible x

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Admitting a mistake/miscalculation doesn't make you all 'wrong'---That would be dysfunctional thinking

I agree but the issue for some EP's is making mistakes does make them all wrong hence their estrangement.

Unless I've missed something in the OP, I don't see where she has said she deserved estrangement. She can see why it's happened and her part in it, but that's not saying she believes she deserved it.

Smileless, Starblaze said, Until today: I had never met an estranged parent who thought they deserved to be estranged-

Until today- Meaning, until today she had never met an estranged parent who thought they deserved to be estranged-

I don't think it's all that unusual, personally- It's just that the majority of estranged parents on this forum wouldn't agree with the OP or simply don't wish to discuss it if they did- Or they would- But they don't-

I think some EP's feel like if they admit to making a mistake as a parent that means they did nothing right...

This guy made a mistake as a pilot/parent and no one is going to pull his licence because he made a 'bad call' on whether the plane would take off or not. He's still a pilot/parent.

Admitting a mistake/miscalculation doesn't make you 'all wrong' -- That would be dysfunctional thinking.

Let me tell a personal story -- I was watching an episode of MythBusters and it was to do with, 'Can a plane take off on a conveyor belt?' So I thought about it and said to the person I was with, "Everything I know about aviation says to me the plane should not take off... Unless there is something that I have not factored in."

The MythBusters asked their pilot how he assumed the test would go. The pilot agreed with my position. "This plane is not 'taking off'." The plane took off just fine...

My 'assumption' was made without all the data because no one had tried this before, however, both the professional pilot and I immediately "figured out" what we had not 'factored in' and I know I laughed at myself... I hope a "real pilot" did as well...

We made assumptions on what We THOUGHT we 'knew'. When more info came in We realized our mistake/miscalculation. Dysfunctional thinkers on the other hand would hold onto their 'assumption' that the plane "wasn't going anywhere" even as the plane is flying off over the horizon. They will still see the plane as "on the ground" rather then admit they made one silly miscalculation and apologize/laugh 'it' off at the time.

The moral of the story is, I know a lot about aviation as did a professional pilot. We both made the same mistake and looked pretty damn silly as the plane took flight. The person I was with looked at me and asked, "What didn't you 'factor in'?" Me -- "Wheels on planes are 'free wheeling' not like in cars... All the conveyor belt did was make the wheels turn twice as fast. It didn't change the air-flow/lift across the wings."

So not only did I make an incorrect 'assumption' but I could recognize and admit where I went 'wrong'. Does that take away from all my other aviation knowledge? Nope. Would I get on a plane with a pro-pilot who made the same miscalculation? Of course, but only because he saw the same thing. If he was still trying to claim the plane was 'on the ground'? No.

Some people may not like harsh and abrupt words but maybe they are exactly what is needed to wake up a mother or father somewhere to how they may have caused estrangement.

Its not about "not liking" harsh and abrupt words! But I am not going to try and explain it yet again.

but maybe they are exactly what is needed to wake up a mother or father somewhere to how they may have caused estrangement.

That isn't suggested by this on this forum from the conversations that are had, the assumptions made by SOME in all represented groups or the way the threads develop along the same lines SO consistently

Madgran

I've never met an EAC who said they were never abused, came from a secure and loving family and their parents did nothing to warrant the estrangement.

They exist though.

I had never met an estranged parent who thought they deserved to be estranged and yet the OP has truly taken the blame for her own estrangement!!

Looked in the right mirror too...!

What an amazing find Holyhannah! What an interesting thread with the usual lack of accountability, blame shifting and gaslighting from some.

I have never met an estranged child who has said they were not abused and did not have deep stress and unhappiness as a result.

Until today:

I had never met an estranged parent who thought they deserved to be estranged.

Simple maths of course tells us that the numbers simply don't add up.

Children are born completely innocent and mental health problems have been factually proven again and again to arise from injury or abuse.

What a wonderful, brave and amazing parent the OP is who truly took the blame for their own estrangement and looked deeply into the past to find the clues to put it right!

Someone somewhere could read this post, look at things a different way and it could be that a family comes back together. Some people may not like harsh and abrupt words but maybe they are exactly what is needed to wake up a mother or father somewhere to how they may have caused estrangement. See, we don't need to poo poo threads and comments we don't like, we can just take what helps us or move on x

Pantglas3 the point was not originally made by me, it's made by the EP in the article. Most people don't know they are dysfunctional. I remember a comment I read somewhere, never trust a person who thinks they are perfect, never apologises and never holds themselves accountable. I'm not judging anyone here but any one of us could be seriously dysfunctional and abusive and we'd never knownpr never admit it, so it makes sense to look for missing links that cause estrangement x

HolyHannah Ok.

Madgran -- I posted that as a general example of how easy dysfunction can be overlooked in society, in general and an example of what scapegoating looks like in the real world. Lady was 'right' and everyone else was in the wrong and yet because they had a dysfunctional herd mentality they turned it to her being "in the wrong". All those people/adults there and not one person said, "She's right." It's easier to make one person 'look stupid' then have the herd have to admit they were wrong. It's no different in a dysfunctional family.

Yes that's right, you can be scapegoated for not agreeing with the herd and scapegoated for being perceived as a threat to the herd as EP's know only to well.

Hope it's not a sign of old age Yennifer.

Sorry Smileless2012 my memory doesn't usually let me down like that, usually makes up for being a bit thick lol x

...and my last comment was not intended to be defensive. I am not sure if your post was linked to my comments or not "Holy Hannah" so my last comment may be irrelevant.

I have looked at the link that you posted!

*Dysfunctional thinking is not as uncommon as some would think. Unfortunately when you won't agree with 'the herd' you get scapegoated out.*n

I haven't commented on how common or uncommon it is! Nor have I scapegoated anyone.

No family is perfect, no relationship is perfect, life isn't perfect. So, one of the things we need to learn is how to negotiate within relationships. To recognise the value of relationships so they are not too easily discarded.

Negotiation requires a willingness from 'both sides' to accept that there are faults in others just as there our faults within ourselves.

all families have dysfunction in them somewhere yes, of course they do because no family is perfect however, if the ups and downs of life, the imperfections that we all have are enough to justify estrangement then no family is 'safe' and all families would be living with the misery of estrangement wouldn't they.

So what you say is correct Madgran "dysfunction is not always the cause of estrangement".

ottawasun.com/2013/06/02/ottawa-soccer-mom-upset-that-kids-were-told-to-take-shelter-under-trees/wcm/e3f43453-21cd-4170-9f6a-e4c6c3fa0f1e

Dysfunctional thinking is not as uncommon as some would think. Unfortunately when you won't agree with 'the herd' you get scapegoated out.

...althought estrangement may come out of dysfunction that has developed between adults. I meant that dysfunction in childhood is not always the cause of estrangement in adulthood