What EP's need to hear from a fellow Estranged Parent.

No I'm not making stuff up rosearmel you'd probably be as shocked and horrified as I was at some of the reasons EP's have been given for their estrangement. In the eyes of some EAC their parents simply weren't good enough; not perfect.

'I wanted to go to boarding school but you wouldn't let me'

'I didn't want to go boarding school but you made me' (the fact that the parent had no choice wasn't taken into account)

'I always wanted a pony and never had one' etc, etc.

You cannot possibly know that the only people who bring up the word perfection when it comes to estrangement are EP's.

What's the EP/EGP supposed to conclude when they become estranged because they can't or don't want to do free child care? Can't or wont help get their AC out of debt? Refuse to be held responsible for the mistakes their AC's made?

They quite rightly IMO conclude that because they can't or won't do everything their AC wants that they fall short, that in the eyes of that AC they're not their image of what a parent should be, they're not perfect. They're not 100% flawed either, just not good enough.

"I agree but the issue for some EP's is making mistakes does make them all wrong hence their estrangement."

Smileless -- So because you 'think'/believe that, that is how EAC feel right? Since you don't identify as an EAC where are you getting that 'fact' from? That's the definition of projection.

"I think my EAC wanted me to be 'perfect' but because that's impossible that's why they estranged!"

I think you know well enough by now that EAC are not saying anywhere, "I estranged because my parent wasn't 'perfect'." The idea that EAC do say that is gaslighting and you just saying that it is 'true' because you say so is more gaslighting.

Unless of course you can provide a source (not just an opinion or projections from other EP's) where an EAC says anything close to that.

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/themes-perfection.html

The underlying logic is:

1. The changes you want me to make in how I treat you are unreasonable. You're demanding perfection.

2. You have no right to demand perfection of me unless you yourself are perfect.

3. Therefore, unless you yourself are perfect, you cannot ask me to make any changes.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I've already proved Starblaze wrong Yennifer which wasn't hard to do because she is wrong.

You received some unpleasant comments and in relation to your post about being forced to eat carrots, I responded with sympathy and support.

The two posts to me from Starblaze are IMO in the same vein as the ones you received and perceive as bullying. Do you think therefore that Starblaze is bullying me because if you do, I don't see any support whatsoever coming from you.

"I know all about gas lighting, scapegoating and projecting. There are numerous examples of all 3 here on GN and the majority of them aren't coming from EP's." -- More gaslighting.

You don't like what I'm saying and call that gaslighting. Gaslighting is saying something untrue and selling it as 'fact'. Fact -- People do not estrange from a loving family because they didn't get a pony. You say, "Yes they DO!" That's gaslighting.

Smileless you and Starblaze are both adults and you don't need to bring others' into a dispute. If I wanted to participate I would have said something.

I'm also not going to drop to playground mentality of "Whose 'side' are you on?" I call things as I see them and I know what I've seen.

Well I'm in a tough position really Smileless2012 because I saw you send the flowers and the lovely supportive comments to people right after they were nasty to me. When I was unhappy about the way I was treated you kept saying I'd misunderstood them, and when they made very obvious statements you didn't see you were wrong. So that part of what Starblaze says is true so how do I know the rest isn't? I can't. So I think it's better I stay out of it really because I am stressed out right now and I don't want any arguing x

I'm grateful for all the posts here.

DS seems to have gotten over some of his grudge. But ultimately I think he does feel wronged in some way and I am at a loss to know how to get him to open up. We are never alone now due to family self isolation .

I just wanted to mention something that my Psychologist told me about my NM, my scapegoating as a child and the other stuff I told her about. She said " ALL parents no matter how well meaning are going to FXXX up their children in some way"

She wasn't sticking up for my parents. She was explaining to me that even if I don't repeat their mistakes, I WILL make my own (because Im human) It's quite depressing and yet, it does make sense.

Every generation tries to do better than the last, yet we are all human.

Saying that I haven't encouraged Starblaze either except to acknowledge at times when they stuck for me but more not because I didn't want to escalate anything x

Could we all call a truce whilst we are at war with Corona?

I offer sincere apologies for all hurtful comments, though none were expected to cause offense, just blunt old me as per.

Anyone surviving dysfunction does so because of their coping skills...these skills can be a double edged sword - fawning to avoid a beating or disaproval - could hold one back in life. The person is not to "blame" in any of this, only the behaviour and actions.

Can we use the next weeks extending extra tolerance toward each other?

Tough times ahead so good luck to all.

Yes please ananimous, 2 or possibly 3 key workers in this household. Waiting for the classification of number 3. I will be looking after the children of doctors and nurses. We are going to get sick. Just a matter of time x

Stay safe everyone x

Smileless, I didn't suggest you were making anything up- Please re-read what I wrote-

Stay safe everyone-

S T A Y S A F E - S T A Y H O M E

Thank you to you Yennifer and to all the other key workers who will be putting themselves at risk in order to protect the vulnerable and the elderly for long enough for this virus to run its course or for vaccines to become available.

To everyone else STAY HOME STAY SAFE

You're right rosecarmel and I apologise. It was HolyHannah who posted today at 14.32 "Smileless.... Now you are just plain making stuff up".

I wasn't aware that you were being brought into any dispute HolyHannah but don't doubt that if you had something to say on the matter, you would.

With regard to gas lighting, I think it's you who doesn't like what I have to say, so accuse me of gas lighting. At least we have one thing in common; we call things as we see them and know what we've seen.

For the last time Yennifer because I've already explained this. I sent 'flowers' to the poster you're referring too because she's and old GN friend and I hadn't seen her posting for some time. It had nothing to do with her post. As for you believing anything else that Starblaze has to say, well that's entirely up to you. It really makes no difference to me either way.

I'm glad your DS appears to have "gotten over some of his grudge" Lavazza. That's a good start and perhaps given time he'll be able to gradually open up.

Well here's some good news. In Venice due to no boats and gondolas, the waters are clearing to the extent that fish and swans have returned and even dolphins have been sited.

Not a problem Starblaze x

Think everyone's over it Smileless2012, time to let it go x

Why bring it up again then Yennifer?

Yennifer have you ever heard of narcissistic rage? It doesn't really matter to them that you feel hurt by their behaviour, or that you are justified to feel that way. They will rage on and on and HATE you for pointing out even the smallest flaw. They will never look within themselves to see where the fault comes from. They will never ever see your hurt. They will hold a grudge and never let go, even though they will pretend to at times, just so you let your guard down.

With a narcissist we could be going through a global disaster where millions could die across the world, everyone living under extreme stress and people bravely putting themselves on the front lines for the vulnerable. Yet a narcissist will put their wounded pride above it all. The rage unstoppable.

Oh yes, that is actually what is happening isn't it.

OP is clearly not a narcissist and that was why she was able to put so much right. Other estranged parents may not be narcissists too and may be able to hear her, but I am willing to bet most were able to put it right before estrangement became permanent.

Much love fellow estranged children. I'm sorry estranged parents here cannot hear you and repeat past patterns. Your strength in overcoming your childhoods and wounds will serve you well at this time.

It looks as if you were wrong Yennifer and not everyone is over it or prepared to let it go.

Smileless -- If you can cite a source where EAC have said they estranged for any of the reasons you listed or anything similar, I will apologize and agree with you. Cite a source that is not just other EP's speculating on why EAC go No Contact.

If you cannot cite a source then I have to believe your 'fact' is indeed not true and trying to sell something that is not true as "fact" is gas-lighting.

Also, other then you not agreeing with what I post, feel free to provide sources that refute what I am saying. You say I am gas-lighting you. What am I saying that is untrue that I am trying to 'sell' as 'fact'?