SUPPORT for all living with the pain of estrangement

Hi Smileless it was actually my D G/D's birthday. She is still quite young and I haven't had contact for 2 years. I doubt if she remembers me now.

That sounds lovely marg; sharing to celebrate an estranged AC's birthday is a good idea. As Granniesunite has posted "We do whatever gives us peace of mind".

That must be heartbreaking Nanastrawberry to know that your GC have asked for you.

The bond you have developed with your GC for 8 years I'm sure will never be broken. Whatever may or may not happen in the future, those memories will stay.

Thanks so much for the wonderfully supportive and informative posts .
My son and I have had difficulty communicating for many years .However I have cared for his children as babies / toddlers and before and after school : 1 day a week for 8 year; as well as babysitting . I have tried reconciliation several times.Also I have written and accepted his need for distance .HOWEVER a family member is willing to accompany grandchildren visits etc . Estrangement has been 17months now ; I know the children have asked for me ( heartbreaking) . He refused to attend professional mediation.
I'm afraid if I keep waiting the children's bond with me will weaken?

I like the idea of sharing a birthday cake marg63. I hope it brought a little happiness to you and your husband. I'll keep that in mind. We do whatever gives as peace of mind.

Thank you all for your kind and sensible advice. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but it is comforting to know you're not the only one in this situation.

It's my DG's birthday today. Sent a card but don't know whether she will receive it. I really would like her to know how much I love her. It is so painful for me to think she will grow up thinking I don't care about her.

I bought a birthday cake for DH and me to share with a nice cup of tea! It was lovely.

Hope all you lovely kind ladies have a nice Bank Holiday weekend.

Nanastrawberry - first, I want to send a big virtual hug to you and to say that you are not alone and you certainly shouldn't feel ashamed, although I know that many estranged parents do. Estrangement is surprisingly common in our more fractured society, but it is extremely painful and the grief - it is grief - can be overwhelming at times. Most of us on this site have experienced this and may continue to experience it, whether they be estranged parents or estranged adult children. You are among friends here, people who understand exactly what you are going through, although each person's pain will be as individual as they are.

Many estrangements are not permanent and may be triggered by a number of different factors. It is inevitable that you will reflect, search for answers, but sometimes it is hard to find them. In some ways, it is like a surprise cocktail; you throw in different ingredients, personalities, situations etc and that is the result. And you need only change one ingredient to get a wholly different result. But you can drive yourself mad by spending too much time ruminating on it all - night times are particularly difficult, in my experience.

I understand the desire to take action, to want to fix the situation, and why you are considering legal proceedings to try to force a change. However, I would take deep breaths and reflect very carefully before you go down that road (and I say that as a retired lawyer). Grandparents have limited rights in the UK and the process is not only difficult and expensive, but you run a very real risk of exacerbating the situation, as litigation often tends to polarise positions.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to be patient and to keep busy, take care of yourself and try to do things that make you happy. I also had therapy, which I found very helpful. Don't put your life on hold until the estrangement is over. There is always joy to be found, even when times seem dark.

for you. X

I'm sorry you're feeling low Nanastrawberry. Sorry I can't advise you on what to do about mediators or legal things. I also find it hard to talk to anyone in real life. Some avoid the topic because they know it is very painful. Some people cheerily ask if everything's ok now then look really shocked that the situation is still continuing. But none of them get it like the people on here. So I hope this space gives you comfort. I do actually know one person irl who is estranged from her daughter, and has been for a long time, but she copes by avoiding the subject herself. And you've been given lots of good advice, I hope it helps you.

I agree granniesunite it does get a little easier. It still hurts like hell but the shame gets less when you realise you're not alone and you find ways to get through the days. But yes smiles it still smacks you in the face again when it will.

As you say madgran we have to learn to take care of ourselves. One step at a time. Whatever it takes to get through the day.

I had a dream about my ES last night. We were reunited and hugging. It's left me a bit teary on and off all day, the dreams usually do that. But we went to take baking to our DD and though it was a flying visit it lifted my heart no-end. And I also gave DH a slightly wonky haircut.

Nanastrawberry People may change the subject because they are embarrassed or don't know what to say. Without knowing the context of your estrangement it is impossible to know the reasons really; you may know whether some agree or disagree with your point of view, but as you say you haven't really discussed it then maybe not.

Feeling so sad and low is human and understandable whatever the circumstances of your estrangement. I am not sure when the estrangement started but generally I do think "giving him space" as granniesunite advises is wise. If he is refusing mediation then he is making it clear that he does not want contact with you on any terms at the moment. So again as granniesunite wisely advises, Step back, take care of yourself, do what you need to do to get through a day and one day it will feel a little bit easier.

Smileless has given you some helpful information about McKenzie friends. Do think long and hard about going to court, it's a hard road and there are many potential impacts to consider about your relationships going forward.

Many posters on here can give you constructive and helpful advice, not necessarily agreeing with you but supporting you to think and decide the way forward kindly but honestly and understanding how hard this situation is to deal with, whatever the circumstances

Good advice Nanastrawberry, from Smileless and Granniesunite.

Getting on for 8 years for us Granniesunite and for some reason I was thinking this morning that I still can't believe what's happened.

First time I've heard of "Mc Kenzie friend" but you seem to have been given solid advice from smileless .

Please don't feel ashamed of your estrangement
* nannastrawbery* You're greaving and friends need to know that's what's happening to you. If they don't listen to you, or judge you, you need to ask yourself if they're true friends.

Its a hellish situation to be in. You're powerless and need support til you get the strength to see clearly what's ahead of you. True friends will provide this or the sensible posters on here will do that too. We've been estranged for three years now and it feels like it happened yesterday. But it does get easier. Step back, take care of yourself, do what you need to do to get through a day and one day it will feel a little bit easier. You'll never stop loving your son, but give him space to think. I really wish you all good things.

I don't think it should be assumed that because family and friends change the subject, that is because they don't support your point of view. As I've said they may simply feel uncomfortable with the situation.

You posted that this is like a bereavement; it is and is referred too as a living bereavement. It isn't uncommon for those recently bereaved to experience friends and family not wanting to talk about their loss because they just don't know what to say.

I was told of someone who had a couple of friends who ducked into shops or crossed the road in the aftermath of the death of her husband.

I'm sorry you're feeling low Nanastrawberry and that it appears from your post that you can't talk to anyone about it because they change the subject.

It's difficult for people to understand if they haven't had personal experience and I think it makes some uncomfortable, especially if they knew the relationship you had with your son and cannot understand how this could have happened.

My brother used to be a McKenzie friend before he finally retired. They are fully qualified in their field so you need to find one who practices family law. They are a lot cheaper but, not all judges will allow them to present on your behalf in court.

They will give you all the assistance and legal knowledge you'll need but it can be difficult for some to go into court and have to represent themselves.

You say your son has refused mediation. Is this what he's told you or have you gone through the process of engaging a mediator, who has then contacted your son and his refusal has been given to him or her?

If you haven't contacted a mediator this is the first thing you need to do. If your son then refuses mediation this can go in your favour if you then have to seek leave to take your case to court.

EGP's need the court's permission to even take their case for contact with their GC to court and many don't succeed so please think very carefully before going down the legal route.

It's fraught with difficulties and can ultimately prevent any possibility how ever small, of a future reconciliation.

I've never met an EP/EGP who didn't wait for some time before telling family and friends about their estrangement. It's a natural reaction to feel ashamed and takes time to get over that and see you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Do talk to us here. I know it's not the same but it does help to get things off your chest, especially with people who understand what you're going through.

Take care and stay strong x

Nanastrawberry -- The best way to assure that your adult children will forever cut you out of their lives and that of your grandchildren, is to even 'bring up' taking them to court to force visitation.

There are many parents that are No Contact with their adult children and by extension their grand-children due to the idea/threat of court action.

I know of at least one estranged parent who 'forgets' they threatened court action and shortly thereafter they were cut off...

Don't make the same mistake as others. Find a better/healthier way to engage with your family because as you said, "if I bring sons name up everyone changes subject" which says to me they don't really support your POV and you may be putting those relationships in jeopardy as well.

Feeling exactly the same way. I never even told extended family and friends at first as ashamed!!!
It's out in open now but if I bring sons name up everyone changes subject ; it's like a bereavement

Very low today; I'm beginning to think I will have to use courts to see grandchildren. I cannot afford a solicitor . Son refuses mediation .
Has anyone used a McKenzie friend . ? Some advertising cheaper with court experience? Thanks in advance

That made me laugh too Madgran.

Thankfully Mr. S. isn't into vests either hugshelp. I think only the real Bruce Willis can make that particular garment look good.

No to the vest smiles lol. Glad Charlie 2 is making you happy.

you really made me laugh madgran77

hugshelp seems brave to me using clippers. With my very curly hair I would never dare, I would either be bald or look like I had a shredded carrot on my head (I'm an auburn/red head!)

I've never found they did anything for me either Granniesunite. Mr. S. finds them good but that said he can fall asleep on his feet.

Well I am rather smitten PF. We took Charlie for a spin and he is rather fab, We both keep going to the window and having a look because we can't quite believe how lucky we are.

I've just told Mr. S. about you using clippers with the guard off hugshelp and we both had a good laugh at you thinking you must have looked like Bruce Willis too. You don't happen to wear a vest by any chance?.

Oh that's lovely news PF - so good to hear things moving onwards and upwards.

Mr smiles sounds very handsome and hilarious. Hope your trip is wonderful.

I often cut my own hair with clippers. Started before lock-down as I hate going to the hairdressers. I did my sides once with the guard off, trying to be a bit trendy. I think I probably looked like Bruce Willis too!

Sounds good Smileless

Smileless - I think Mr S has a rival for your affections

Hope you have a lovely time and in Charlie 2. All mod cons there I'm sure. Memories of happy days. Hope you enjoy.

Re sleeping aids. I've tried quite a few natural over the counter ones. No joy.
Thanks for the tip though
smileless

We're going for a trip down memory lane, to a camp site not too far from where we live where we used to take the boys tenting and in our caravan.