SUPPORT for all living with the pain of estrangement

My husband wanted to paint the garden furniture, I said it would rain and thunderstorm... I was wrong and now we have some silly tan lines. I give up looking at the weather report. Garden furniture looking good though.

I was worried about LeeElizabeth, so I'm glad you posted about her pm to you Smileless

Namsnanny

Welcome LeeElizabeth. I haven't seen your other posts but I vividly remember the panic and the head-spin when this first happens. As it's only just happened there is still a chance it won't become a full-blown estrangement and I hope for you it doesn't. But either way we are here and wishing well for you both. x

Urgh Fog is no fun smiles. We had rain all morning then the sun broke out, so we did too and went for a lovely walk, albeit with good shoes for mud, and got back just in time to avoid the next downpour.

Hi again spring - it is good to see someone else reunited with loved ones, but yes it hurts like hell to be reminded it's not you, but it can also be something to give a little hope maybe. And even if it's not me I'm glad there's a little more love being shared in the world. It's strange but these days I see a lot of love and caring, but also a lot of anger and pain, and division. Sometimes seeing even a tiny light in the darkness makes the whole picture seem a little brighter.

It's never a good idea to discuss politics with other generations within a family unless you vote for the same people. I do tend to listen to my AC on politics though as I'm of the opinion that they have a lot more at stake in the future than I do. I was always a Green in the past though so not a massive shift for me. Families voting differently, just don't talk about it. Respect each others decisions, best you can do with a tricky situation. Plenty of other things to talk about.

Hugshelp Smileless … Did you catch the programs on BBC2 about David Bowie? If not I'm sure Iplayer will have them.

Trying hard to keep occupied (with anything but primarily the garden) to keep the demons at bay.

The sadness and self condemnation never goes.
Some days I can push it back and get on with the gardening, but mostly I question myself and/or my decisions.
Cry a lot more than I thought I would.

The last few days have been 'good' days compared with the black dog ones.
I've made a start on some furniture renovations. 3 coats of paint done, and decoupage top done.
Now repair drawer and add handles, plus decoupage on the front face.
Then cover all with varnish for protection.

I'm in a rush to get it finished because when the melancholies hit, nothing get's done around here, so I'm catching up.

Aquamarine 3nanny6 spring20 LeeElizabeth … My heart goes out to you,

Thankyou everyone who posts here with sincerity. I am most grateful.

We watched some of it Namsnanny a lot of footage has been aired before but we can't resist any thing about Bowie.

Looks as if you're keeping busy and have some hidden talents undertaking furniture renovations. It certainly helps to have something to do, to focus on and then be rewarded with that sense of achievement when the job's done.

I was just thinking earlier when looking at the curtains I altered at the beginning of the lock down that if it weren't for the restrictions, I'd never had got around to doing them.

Glad you managed to get a lovely walk hugshelpwe took our dogs to some near by woods for a good run and had planned on a BBQ for tea, but the weather changed again.

Politics and religion; 2 subjects that often result in passionate debate. We did have with both sons, and still do have with our DS, heated discussions from time to time about a variety of topics. For us, it was an opportunity as our children grew, to teach them the importance of listening to others and respecting someone else's right to have the opinions they do, even if they're not agreed with.

It does work in some families Smileless but I've seen so many falling outs over politics the last few years that I've taken to not discussing it with anyone I care about or work with. Politics definitely isn't worth estrangement (wasn't sure which post to answer LeeElizabeth). Hopefully that won't become a lasting estrangement

It can certainly be a bone of contention Starblaze. There were so many posts on GN about families falling out because of the Brexit referendum. Mr. S. and I are used to different views on many things including politics; we generally cancel out one another's votes.

In fact in nearly 40 years of marriage we've only voted the same way on 3 occasions; we didn't vote the same way in the referendum!

Lol! My husband and I started with different views but I've talked him around over the years, his were more a result of his upbringing and he saw things differently after a time. It's easy to talk with him though, not sure where I might hit a sore spot with others. Young people now are so passionate about things.

Its weird as mu and I voted the same politically but she still managed to pick arguments about it. I expect that's a big part of why I am more careful except when I get swept up in something that hurts me deeply on a moral level.

We certainly have more in common than we used too, when we first met we didn't even like one another's taste in music! I think we're a good example of how opposites attract.

Some people are like that. We have a good friend who, if you shut him up in room on his own for long enough, would pick an argument with himself.

Didn't manage to catch it Namsnanny but thanks for the heads up - will have a hunt for it on catchup. I'm really glad you are having some good days. I can remember wondering how that was even possible, but we learn to value all the good things we can. xxx

Glad you and your dogs got out smiles even if the bbq was put on hold. DH and I also cancel each other's votes out and have very disparate political views but I think it brings a good balance as long as discussions are done respectfully. And we have opposing views on Brexit too. But the more we talk the more clear it is that nothing is actually black and white - our opposing views do have overlapping areas too.

You're right, younger people can be more passionate, at least in the way they express themselves star. I remember my teenage self thinking I was so grown up, knew everything, and could take on the world. I think the years have given me a touch more pragmatism and the older I get the more I think I have to learn.

Had a mostly good day. The sun came out so I set about bringing back some order to the bedraggled garden. A young friend, who lost his mum when she was only in her fifties, about 18 months ago, posted something very moving about it on his facebook, saying, 'don't leave it too late to talk to the people you love' and it just hit me - one of those body blow moments, I'm still just a tiny bit blue but I'm ok - the force of those moments when you are not expecting them is still so painful though.

Thinking of you all. x

I agree Hugshelp ...the force of those moments when your not expecting them is so painful.

I find the thought that someone I love is not prepared to talk before it's too late, indescribable.

Morning ladies. We find that too hugshelp there are many areas where do we agree and those have increased over the years.

I can understand why seeing that FB message was a "body blow moment"; it got to me too.

The sun came out here too about lunch time. Foggy at the moment due to sea fret, can't actually see the sea at the moment!

Those were the years weren't they when we thought we were grown up and knew it all. Have fond memories of our boys being just the same and realising what a pain me and my brother must have been.

The thought of never talking to our EAC again is as you say Namsnanny, indescribable.

Another bad night's sleep last night, so frustrating. Took me a while to get off and I lost count of the number of times I woke up. Everything that's going on with the pandemic and the protests is unsettling and even though all shops will be open today, we'll be staying away.

We'll need to go into town at some point this week but will go early and hopefully it wont be too busy and we'll only go into the 2 shops we've been using since the lock down.

What about you? Will any of you be venturing out and into the shops? I'm surprised at how much this knocked my confidence; anyone else feel the same?

Take care and have a good day with what ever you're doing. Mr. S. is heading out for a game of bowls and apart from my exercise routine, nothing else is planned.

We wont be going into any different shops than the ones we have been all these weeks, ie aldi lidl waitrose.
We did go to b and q to get a few things when it was allowed. Probably do that once or twice more over the next few weeks.
But no browsing or IKEA type shopping

My eldest, previously estranged DD, and my two youngest DD are about as radically different in their political views as it is possible to be. DD1 is far right and the others are extreme left- as DD1 says, conversation over Christmas dinner could turn out to be difficult - not that it's likely to happen anytime soon and probably not at all.

Smileless - I think it will be a while before we venture out, not least because we are shielding DH, who is having chemo at present. I also think I have a touch of FOGO

Im on the phone so kept the last post short, ran out of signal.
Sorry to hear you're not sleeping well Smileless!! Any reason you can think of?
It is both debilitating and frustrating not to get enough sleep.

When I get to sleep it is deep and a tornado could RIP through them bedroom and I wouldn't notice!
But getting to that point can and often does take hours.
One of the reasons s I'm so frenetic on the days I can do something, is to just to wear myself out on the hope I shall sleep.
So you have my sympathy

All this talk of sleep is making me yawn. I shall have to resist though.

Weather clear bright breezy here.

PetitFromage ... my sympathies and good wishes to your husband.

In my household the AC all had similar political ideas to each other, but different to their dad and I.
Not so different I thought.
I try hard not to talk about politics nowadays.
To be honest I dont see it's worth falling out about.
I'm more concerned with keeping my remaining AC's and their partners comfortable in our company. I would hate to be instrumental in any family trouble.

I'm comfortable with my views and comfortable with them having different ones.
I like the phrase agree to differ.

Good Afternoon All and hopefully the weather where you all are is as lovely as it is in my area. Thank-you to all that always say hello to me, ( Smileless, Namsnanny and Hugshelp). I always take a look at the thread and am thinking of you all although sometimes I cannot post and take myself off for a walk just to distract myself .

Most of you know that my AD never says much to me and if I sit in the garden with the children sometimes she does not come out there. Anyway for the last five weeks she has had
"harsh realities" for want of better words happening in her life which she told me a little bit about but she just hoped they would disappear. They were not going to disappear as the ball had started rolling via the childrens services. Obviously I know this is sensitive and will not divulge too much because of someone elses personal data. The long and short of it is that she is on her last chances with them and I hope she can really focus on getting back on track or we know where that can lead to. (heaven forbid)
One thing that she has to follow is to clean her home (so embarrassing to have a daughter that does not see mess). I researched a reputable cleaner last week and said I will pay for the first two cleans also she does laundry a large bag washed dried and folded for 10 pounds. My daughter thanked me but there was a meeting on Friday and although I know it went as well as expected because my eldest daughter attended and I have spoken to her however my daughter has not answered calls or texts to me since then even though those matters are nothing to do with me and now I feel once again (What happens now")
Hugshelp has said in one of her posts "Don't leave it too late to talk to the people you love" and that is hitting me now and so painful.
Namsnanny also posted I find the thought that someone I love is not prepared to talk before it's too late indescribable.
I too feel that particularly because I know my daughter must be hurting herself but if she is now not talking then I think I should back off for the time being.
So ladies I am feeling a bit fragile but have continued to care for what I have planted in the garden and taken the dogs for several walks and in between that have had a few weepy moments something that has not hit me for awhile.
Take care all of you I am putting on a little bit of lipstick and taking the dogs out again it is called putting on my painted smile as many people I meet on my dog walks are oblivious of the heartbreak lying inside.

That's a lot to deal with 3nanny6 and I hope it all goes as well as it can.

I actually had a genuine apology from my Mum which I have been thinking about a lot. No context of what she is sorry for but it was an actual real apology. No "sorry you feel that way". The trouble is that I don't see how it could work. If she admits everything she did to wiser family, she would destroy her own life. Also, I think it might be too late after all this time.

So I am also in a pickle really.

The thing is, it was just 4 words. I was grateful to get them, I had never thought she was capable of them and I don't trust she could have changed.

Of course PF you have to be very careful with your DHf[lowers]and hugs for you both x.

Your post reminded me of the family discussions the 4 of us used to have. They could get rather heated and difficult because the boys would disagree with one another.

I think I've got a touch of FOGO too. Mr. S. and I are going out this afternoon to look at a camper van. We thought it would be a useful addition to the lodge, enabling us to get away for just a night or 2 and go further for days out.

Bless him, he says he noticed that although I've always been a real home bod, I'm becoming more so. I certainly became more that way inclined following our estrangement, especially when we moved here and this house became my 'safe place'. The lodge is the same as it's a home from home as our villa in Florida used to be. Maybe a camper van will be another safe place for me; a safe place on wheels.

I think it must be a culmination of all that's going on Namsnanny, a general sense of unease and seeing photographs of GP's getting hugs from their GC they've been unable to see due to lock down, is lovely but also brings to the fore front of our minds that that will never happen for us.

So an unexpected treat this afternoon, camper van hunting. We've seen one on line which we'll look at this afternoon and there are others to view there as well.

I'll let you know how we get on.

Took me ages to finish my post as the dogs can't seem to decide which side of the door they want to be in, so I'd started typing before I saw your's 3nanny and Starblaze.

It's a real emotional roller coaster for both you and your D 3nanny, I'm so sorry. It's understandable that you're feeling fragile. Don't worry about the weepy moments. We all have them and the old saying that 'it's better out than in' is true.

You're doing amazingly well, thank goodness you have your dogs for company and to take out for walks. Your garden must be looking lovely after all of your hard work so I hope you'll be able to enjoy all the work you've done and relax.

I can understand you being in a pickle Starblaze, have you acknowledged your mum's apology? I do agree that an apology can come too late, no matter how well intended.

You need time to think about your situation, perhaps thanking her for her apology without making any commitment to further contact for the time being.

You may decide that the 'risk' of having contact with her is too great but even so, her first "genuine apology" may help to heal some of your wounds.

My advice FWIW is take your time, talk it over with your H and older children and be careful.

Starblaze ; Yes the turmoil going on is a lot to deal with, I put my offer of help on the table so to speak only now for several days any attempts of communication have been met with silence so just at the moment I better stand back and let her come to me if she wants to.
It was good for you to get the apology from your mum, perhaps she was saying sorry for the things she put you through when you were younger. Depending on how long you have been estranged do you think it is really too late to commit to any further contact? Perhaps you find the love you have built up in your family is enough and the risk it may bring for contact with her could undermine all that. How are those kittens getting on big I imagine.
Smileless it certainly is a rollercoaster one that I do not want to be on. I am stepping back from the situation and letting her contact me if she wishes. There is not much I can do as much of the problems she has brought on herself even her sister that is supporting her has said the same.

On a lighter note the thought of a camper van is great Smileless and certainly you could find much enjoyment with the open road. My brother (the one now passed away)
had three camper vans in his time and like you have said he used to travel to Dorset where he had his static caravan. Many times myself and late mother and him went driving to several lovely areas I had my eldest daughter at the time she came along too and also dogs in the back, we had beautiful wonderful days such fun filled memories. A camper van is a must I might even get myself one in a few months and get off down the coast, that way I could always sleep in it overnight and drive back the next day. Sorry long post.

I think that is a good plan 3nanny6. Too soon to know for me, I don't know how I feel. I thought about doing that Smileless but I don't know if it would be false hope to her if it leads to nothing. I am probably the happiest and most settled I have been my entire adult life. So are my children. I don't know that I can risk that on 4 words that could very well not mean what I think they do. Tough one.

Kittens are equal parts amazing/cuddly and little terrors as they should be

Starblaze| |What a difficult decision for you. I can totally understand your fears of risking everything you have built up. Is there anyone at all who might be able to tell you what might have brought your Mum to the point of saying that, I wonder? I think you might have said though, that you don't have any contact with anyone who is in contact with your mum, but may be wrong?