The 'Perception Filter'...

I don't mind

Or with you Motherofdragons

5 out of the 6 points you listed motherofdragons so more than 50%

And are these concerns or do you actually have evidence? Because you absolutely have not detailed any of this on GN over the years as you said you have.

Why have you not contacted any relevant authorities for the safety of your son and grandchildren?

Why, if your son is in such a severely abusive relationship, do you say you wouldn’t want to re-establish a relationship with him?

Of course I have an answer Starblaze but it isn't something I would share with you.

Yorkie20 Are you estranged from your daughter or do you still have a relationship, albeit not as close as before?

It is perfectly normal for children around this age to pull back from the parental relationship in favour of independence. Perfectly normal.

How old is your daughter now?

yorkie20 -- It sounds like your daughter naturally entered the world and spread her wings. Instead of worrying about how much time you don't have with her now that she's an adult, focus on making any time you do spend together fun and positive while not making her feel guilty for not spending as much time with you as she once did.

I think a lot of parents feel 'replaced' and push to keep the relationship the same as it was when their child was a minor. That attitude is sadly a factor in estrangement.

Is her husband really taking up all her time or is it your feeling that he is taking her time away from you? If it's the first, that could be signs of a controlling partner. If it's the second, you need to deal with your feelings. Don't make your feelings HER 'problem'.

She is young and if you were a good and supporting parent while raising her, once she gets settled into an adult life I would like to think a more normal routine of contact will be established.

For now, focus on you and doing things that make you happy.

Smileless You don't have to answer this of course but if your son is in that seriously abusive of a situation, why would you not want him back?

5 out of the 6 points you listed motherofdragons so more than 50%.

If it helps yorkie you are not alone in what you've experienced. I'm not sure this is the best thread for you share your story, you may be better off on the 'support for those living with estrangement' thread.

You haven't rambled

I've read this thread with great interest and its obvious that its a 'sore' point with so many and thats understandable.
I'm not an educated woman, I am not agressive, demanding or looking to put 100% blame on anyone...all I can say is that I had a very good relationship with my daughter until she was 18, she was attending college after doing A levels and met her now husband. I didnt realise at first that bit by bit she stopped having time for food at home, boyfriend was always taking her out somewhere to eat and it came eventually to be that ALL her 'spare' time was spent with him.
On the rare occasion she was at home he would continually phone/text her wanting to know what she was doing etc. He made sure that she was rarely at home other than to sleep.
I have to stop for now if you want more info. feel free to ask. Sorry for rambling on......Ive not told anyone this before.

I've said from the very beginning of my time here on GN that our estrangement is down to our ES's wife influence, so I've been saying so for 7.5 years

Yes, but you saying that your son’s wife is/was jealous of you and his relationship is very different to saying that your son is in a controlling and coercive relationship punishable under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015.

There's plenty of evidence to substantiate our belief, all of which I've posted about here on GN over the years

No, there really isn’t. No evidence whatsoever from you of your son being in a controlling and coercive relationship punishable under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015, described by The Crown Prosecution Service as follows:

• Coercive behaviour is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

• Controlling behaviour is a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate and/or dependent by isolating them from sources of support, exploiting their resources and capacities for personal gain, depriving them of the means needed for independence, resistance and escape and regulating their everyday behaviour.

Again, it would take much more than your son ending his relationship with you on the grounds of issues from his childhood and your apparent bad treatment of him and his wife, for such a relationship to be considered controlling or coercive and punishable under the above Act. Do you have concerns or evidence of any of the following, for example:

• Deprivation of basic needs, such as food.
• Monitoring his time.
• Monitoring him via online communication tools or spyware.
• Taking control over aspects of his everyday life, such as where he can go, who he can see, what he can wear and when he can sleep.
• Depriving him access to support services, such as medical services.
• Repeatedly putting him down, such as saying he is worthless.
• Humiliating, degrading or dehumanising him.
• Controlling his finances.
• Making threats or intimidating him.

Yes, of course we worry about our son's and GC's welfare but there's nothing we can about it which is why we're 'out'; to make sure we can't do anything

Yes, there absolutely is. If your son is in a controlling and coercive relationship punishable under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 then he and his children are in an extremely dangerous situation and I would ask why you have not contacted the police and/or social services. What would you have to lose, you don’t have a relationship with him anyway. Your actions could offer him a way out and to safety, for both him and your grandchildren.

This is an extremely serious allegation to make Smileless and I would ask you again, what other factors make you believe your son is in such a relationship?

"Just say you have never seen such research conducted Smileless, it would have saved us a lot of time."

As I said, you can't produce what doesn't exist.

So, is 'Slappy Mom' from Issendai's page in denial about why she's estranged? Anyone?

Mocking someone for ridiculous and illogical behavior is not wrong. I have the same issue with anti-vaxers, bigots and racists etc. And what you call "mocking" I call "calling out BS". People who don't call out BS are enablers.

It is just plain stupid to blame me for something that occurred BEFORE I even entered the picture. Anyone who supports my MiL's "blame Hannah" position is going to get laughed at as well.

Or am I supposed to get enraged and throw a temper-tantrum because "Somebody said something mean about Me!"? Should I go off with "both barrels" and tell 'those people' what rotten so-and-so's they are? Would that present me in a better light?

Irrational anger and rage is what dysfunctional and abusive families run on. I rather like today's young who are okay with holding up a hand to 'silly' and saying, "Okay Boomer." and walking away.

Letting peoples dysfunctional thinking speak for itself is the way I roll. I don't have to 'fabricate stories'/rewrite history when the truth is stuff like that.

Just say you have never seen such research conducted Smileless, it would have saved us a lot of time.

I can only refer to the authors I have read HolyHannah and have no need or desire to produce evidence of what I know to be true.

I never had the need that you appear to have to produce evidence, I have all the evidence I need from my own experience and from the experiences others have shared. I am secure enough in my own self worth to have no need to produce evidence from others to support my case.

I didn't need evidence, I needed answers, some of which I found and am content with that.

I've said from the very beginning of my time here on GN that our estrangement is down to our ES's wife influence, so I've been saying so for 7.5 years.

There's plenty of evidence to substantiate our belief, all of which I've posted about here on GN over the years.

Yes, of course we worry about our son's and GC's welfare but there's nothing we can about it which is why we're 'out'; to make sure we can't do anything.

Research requires gathering information and 'evidence' from those with personal experience of the subject in question Starblaze.

That research may in some cases, be undertaken by someone who as well as their expertise and professional qualifications, has personal experience of the subject matter being researched. Providing that personal experience is declared, it does not necessarily negate the findings and any conclusions the researcher comes too.

Where do those researching the reasons for AC estranging their parents get their information from? They get their information from EAC. Are all those who have researched this topic not themselves estranged? I doubt it and if they are, does that negate their findings?

They more than likely wont have come across an EAC who admits to estranging their parents due to their partners or another's influence, or who would admit they had good parents who had done nothing to justify the estrangement.

That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Likewise from the other perspective I doubt a researcher has come across an EP who admits that they were abusive and that's why they've been estranged, but we all know they exist don't we.

Smileless, I imagine what could complicate such a case would be that if you claimed he became abusive after entering into the relationship with her, establishing him as engaging in abusive behavior, she then could counter that he was abusive with her too, and be found guilty without producing enough evidence to determine coercion-

Ah yes... The old "because other EP's also say so" line.

People like Sharron Wildey and Sheri McGregor are not reliable reference sources. They are estranged parents who supply no answers for reconciling estrangement because like most EP's they blame everyone but themselves while displaying all kinds of dysfunctional behavior.

Smileless cannot provide links or anything else to these 'sources' because they don't exist.

I have posted this before and not one EP has commented on it. The woman this article is written about claims to be an innocent EP who did "nothing wrong" to deserve estrangement. It is very clear why this woman is estranged...

issendai.com/wp/estrangement/the-slow-build-getting-details-one-drip-at-a-time/

I have been reading these threads for a long time and that is the first I have ever heard you say that Smileless.

It would take much more than your son ending his relationship with you for such a relationship to be considered controlling or coercive and punishable under the Act you quoted.

What other factors make you believe your son is in such a relationship?

I ask because if that is true, then your son and grandchildren would be in a very dangerous situation. Do you have concerns about the safety of your grandchildren?

Yes, Smileless I believe we all freely choose. That doesn't resonate, you believe otherwise. I'll not be able to change your mind, nor you mine. In the large scheme of life it matters not. Just a difference to opinions.

Also, "research" would be third party, not written by an estranged parent

Smileless you said "research" and I have never read any research on it so I was interested to read the "research". I just like that sort of thing.

Why leap to any other assumption? You already know my answer to that question.

Yes motherofdragons we do.

I didn't put words into your mouth Starblaze, I asked you a question which I believe was reasonable as you appear to need more information in order to understand, despite the numerous accounts here on GN.

In the first year or 2 of our estrangement I read a lot about the issue but haven't done so for 4 or 5 years. There are books from Sharon Ann Wildey, the only title of one I remember being 'Abandoned Parents: The Devil's dilemma, she's written 2 others the titles I don't recall.

If you google 'Parents who have been estranged' there's a selection of material. What did you google to come up with nothing?

Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 created a new offence of controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship

Do you believe your son to be in such a relationship?