Hope For Estranged Grandparents

Bibbity Thu 25-Jun-20 12:30:54 I don't need to find a case. I simply apply logic to the situation. Much easier. Yes, laughable that anyone can come on this thread and deliberately expose themselves to ridicule from not understanding simple logic. There are a few of them

The logic is
Judges work in best interest of the child.
Is imprisoning or fining a parent in the best interests of a child?
No.
They won’t do it.

They have the power. They also have the responsibility. Responsibility to the child wins out.

We are now at page 25 and this thread is just going over the same old ground. With a chorus of “Tell me I’m right, tell me I’m right”. “I know the law”, “Apologise, apologise”.

Sigh.

Parents aren’t going to prison for not following a court order granted in favour of the grandparents. It hasn’t happened, it won’t happen. It is not in the child’s best interests which, as some claim, is paramount. How contradictory!

Anyone who wants to prove this as truth, who is so determined for this to be true, is morally questionable at best.

Bibbity Thu 25-Jun-20 12:41:45 I thought you were babying in the garden?

Actually some family courts don't have judges, they have magistrates. I would have expected that with your contacts you would know that

Motherofdragons Thu 25-Jun-20 12:42:01 still won't retract, still won't apologise says to much! However, there would be no need to prove I was right if I hadn't consistently told I didn't know the law! I find the consistent 25 pages of telling people they are wrong, when they are not, really rather infantile. Never a link to justify just abuse. Yet another post deleted, says I lot.

Gners are quite capable to seeing who is twisting other posters' words and also see truth from obfuscation. As yet nothing I have said has been proved wrong. However same does not apply to everyone. You even dispute Grasnet's own words. Really is rather odd.

Yet another post deleted, says I lot

How many posts have you had deleted on this thread again Nonnie?

As yet nothing I have said has been proved wrong. However same does not apply to everyone. You even dispute Grasnet's own words. Really is rather odd

You are wrong. A parent has not and would not be sent to prison for not complying with a court order issued in favour of a grandparent. Why are you so determined for this to be a truth? Do you want to see parents sent to prison for not complying with a contact order issued in favour of a grandparent?

Nonnie

In theory you are right BUT in practice you are wrong.

I'm afraid practice is proof of theory. With no practice, you just aren't right.

Whether or not a P has ever been sent to prison for failing to comply with a court order issued in favour of a GP, and whether or not that is likely to happen, is irrelevant.

As the law stands it could happen and the only way anyone can say it would never happen is for the law to be changed.

As far as I am aware despite the fact that assisted suicide/euthanasia is illegal in this country, no one has ever been sent to prison for it. That does not mean it would, or could never happen, just that so far, it never has.

Thank you Smileless that's exactly the point. It has never happened in a grandparent case and I've never heard of it happening between parents and couldn't find any evidence that it has. It may have

Family courts have existed for an extremely long time so that sets a very strong precident. I myself was court ordered visitation with my dad. My mum didn't actually contest it. My mum put me through hell for it but that's her problem with him, not mine.

Whether or not a P has ever been sent to prison for failing to comply with a court order issued in favour of a GP, and whether or not that is likely to happen, is irrelevant

It is not irrelevant in the slightest. And it is certainly not irrelevant to parents reading this nonesense.

Do you think parents should sent to prison for not complying with a contact order issued in favour of a grandparent?

Motherofdragons Thu 25-Jun-20 12:31:45 can you verify this or should I complain that you can't and get it removed as mine was? I was later able to verify it but you have chosen to ignore it.

Why would I be interested/bothered to look for cases? I don't understand how that affects what the courts write on the orders. If you actually believe everyone ignores them please prove it because I really don't think our legal system in that stupid. No point in the orders if everyone knows you can ignore them.

Motherofdragons Thu 25-Jun-20 13:08:22 how long have you been on GN? Let me explain things to you again -HQ deletes posts, members cannot.

Motherofdragons Thu 25-Jun-20 13:12:51
"A parent has not and would not be sent to prison for not complying with a court order issued in favour of a grandparent. " Can you prove that or is it simply you do not know? Please verify

" Why are you so determined for this to be a truth? Do you want to see parents sent to prison for not complying with a contact order issued in favour of a grandparent?" Why do you say that when you have no evidence. Why are you deliberately maligning me? What I have said has been proved to be true, your denial has not been. How many times have I asked the same question with no truthful response. You can say it as often as you like, it still won't be true and you are making yourself look rather odd.

Starblaze Thu 25-Jun-20 13:37:45 can you verify that? What have I said which is not true? If I have to verify then so should others.

Starblaze Thu 25-Jun-20 13:54:56 I am not aware that anyone has said anything different! 'prescidents' SIC are set all the time so no one knows what could happen depending on circumstances. I reiterate that any parent behaving so badly that a court found it necessary for them to penalise them for breaking an order would have harmed the child/children.

I would say something about your second paragraph but you told me off for sympathising before so I won't

I don't need it Nonnie, it's her problem not mine

Nonnie I haven't said you've said anything untrue in that comment. Where are you getting that from?

Nevermind.

Its pointless to discuss with you. I. Don't have anything else to add and I'm tired of repeating myself. Have a good day.

Why would I be interested/bothered to look for cases? I don't understand how that affects what the courts write on the orders

Why would you not? Because for all the “proof” you keep saying you’ve “shut down” this thread with, providing a case where a parent has actually been sent to prison for breaching a contact order issued in favour with a grandparent would be the only thing with merit. So let me guess, you can’t find one can you?

If you actually believe everyone ignores them please prove it because I really don't think our legal system in that stupid

Anyone with any experience of family court knows this to be true.

And I didn’t say “everyone” doesn’t, I said “people” don’t.

Stop being so hysterical.

Starblaze Thu 25-Jun-20 14:27:19 please don't twist what I said. At no point did I say it was in that post but you must admit you have said that things I say are not true. I would still like you to tell me what I have said which you now know is not true. I can accept that you were ignorant of the facts before I gave you all the examples but it would be useful to know if you still consider I was untruthful or embellished. Of course I would expect you to verify what you say just as I had to.

Motherofdragons Thu 25-Jun-20 14:29:01 no, I have given you the proof of what is on the orders. You have failed to acknowledge that and also failed to back up any of your own 'facts' the onus is now on you.

Please tell me where I kept saying I had shut down the thread or admit that you have misquoted me.

So no proof then? Hmm that leaves you rather open doesn't it.

It appears that yet again I have to explain things to you. This time from the dictionary:

Hysteria

an uncontrollable outburst of emotion or fear, often characterized by irrationality, laughter, weeping, etc.
Psychoanalysis. a psychoneurotic disorder characterized by violent emotional outbreaks, disturbances of sensory and motor functions, and various abnormal effects due to autosuggestion.

Is there anything else I can help you with? Anything else you don't understand? If the answer is 'no' perhaps you can verify your 'facts' so we all know what is true and what is not. Thanks

Motherofdragons Thu 25-Jun-20 14:29:01

"Stop being so hysterical." in addition to all your other specialities do you also have a psychological qualification?

Did HQ give you the right to tell other posters what to do? I would be very surprised if they did. I always suspect the motivation of people who order others around.

Nonnie

I'm really tired of this now.

If someone says grass is blue and I say, no you are wrong or that is not true, this is not the same as calling them a liar.

A liar would be someone who tells untruths on purpose. Are you doing that?

I simply don't agree you are right, I don't believe that a parent will ever go to prison for preventing contact with a grandparent. There is nothing you can say that will make me believe that. I need to see it actually happen. I sincerely doubt it will.

Starblaze Thu 25-Jun-20 16:48:08 in what way am I not 'right'? That is what I keep asking. Show me where I said something not true. If you can't may I suggest that you have either taken as fact what other posters have said I said or that you have misremembered something. All I want is for you to tell me what I said that is wrong it really is very simple. It doesn't matter how many times you tell me you disagree with me if you can't show me what you disagree with. It makes no sense to disagree with something without showing what you disagree with.

The example you use will do very nicely because grass is not blue.

As far as I can see the nub of this disagreement is

1.Whether a parent can, by law, be sent to court for breaching a Contact Order

and

2.Whether there are any examples of cases where that has happened!

Correct me if I am wrong and those 2 points are not the nub of the disagreement!

As far as I can see from my research …

1. is true. The Law does allow for a parent to be imprisoned if they break a contact order

2. Online, there is no case that I can find detailed that shows this has actually happened.

However I can't work out why this disagreement is continuing because a lack of examples for 2 does not cancel out the fact that the law does allow for it happen if the court decided to make it happen!

Nope.

However I can't work out why this disagreement is continuing because a lack of examples for 2 does not cancel out the fact that the law does allow for it happen if the court decided to make it happen!

The disagreement is continuing because it is scaremongering. It has never happened and is unlikely to ever happen. Anyone who has worked/works in family law will tell you this. It is not in the best interests of the child.

And on that point, I can’t understand why posters who claim that the child’s interests are paramount, are so determined to prove that a parent will be sent to prison for not complying with a court order issued in favour of a grandparent. Because that outcome is absolutely not in the best interests of the child.

I am not disagreeing for the sake of argument, or to win the argument, I am absolutely disgusted by it being pushed so ferociously on this thread where apparently, the most inportant thing is the child.

Please tell me where I kept saying I had shut down the thread or admit that you have misquoted me

Okay.

I seem to have done a pretty good job of shutting down this thread to most people! Facts have a tendency to do that, don't they?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Reference my post @ 13.40, the fact that a P has never been imprisoned for failure to comply with a contact order awarded to a GP is irrelevant.

The fact is that the law allows for that to happen and as I said, the only way to guarantee that could never happen is for the law to change.

Pointing out what is possible as the law currently stands is not scaremongering.

Do I think a parent should go to prison for this particular offence? No I don't, but that doesn't alter the fact the it is possible as the law currently stands.