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Estrangement

Hope For Estranged Grandparents

(929 Posts)
worthitall Tue 16-Jun-20 16:30:44

I’ve read some posts where people feel it is not worth the fight to see their grandchildren and others which suggest grandparents don’t have such rights - which is correct.

The fact in such matters though is that the rights belong to the children, including rights to see their grandparents unless there is a very good reason why not - and that Is where most arguments lay and a compelling and realistic case has to be made to support 'why not'?

How am I so sure? The Family Court has given me permission to see my grandchildren on a regular basis. Cafcass had no objections to, nor hesitation in recommending, access and the court was able to see that the cutting off of contact was not about the children but about the parent.

The court has enabled me to restart the lovely relationship I always had with my grandchildren.

Do not be afraid to go to court if it is the only way you can speak to your grandchildren. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Good luck

Nonnie Tue 30-Jun-20 09:47:23

MamaBear20 Mon 29-Jun-20 19:12:47 all that has been explained earlier in this thread. Courts make an order and if the parent breaks it the court can impose penalties. These can be financial, community work, even in the worst cases, imprisonment.

Starblaze Tue 30-Jun-20 09:49:33

Nonnie I'm not engaging with you further on this subject.

Nonnie Tue 30-Jun-20 09:59:09

Starblaze Mon 29-Jun-20 19:34:59 it is a legal right to family life which the child has. In the last few years I read that there is a 'presumption' that grandparents would see them. I think that was a fundamental change which means the courts need to be convinced there is a good reason why they should not. I think this thread has covered all those already.

I have previously asked for (but not got) opinions about whether a dual heritage child should be cut off from one half of its culture.

MamaBear20 Mon 29-Jun-20 20:17:44 I have never come across a case of the law stopping GPs from seeing the gc but in the UK these courts are private so we probably wouldn't see it, same as we have no idea of numbers going to court, failing to get to court or being penalised from breaking an order.

Starblaze Mon 29-Jun-20 21:08:58 do you think the law firms are publishing misinformation? I think it is more likely they are putting it in layman's language so people don't need to read through the laws. I think the Law Society would jump on them if they posted misinformation.

Iron in the UK a 'parenting order' would probably come under Child Arrangement Order but is not what this thread is about, this about spending time with the gcs.

Nonnie Tue 30-Jun-20 10:00:32

Starblaze Tue 30-Jun-20 09:49:33 it is what I expect when a poster cannot verify what they have said. I think we all understand why you are disengaged. Another poster left for the same reason imo

Starblaze Tue 30-Jun-20 10:08:36

Nonnie Darvo. Narrating what happened afterwards doesn't change it I'm afraid. Please stop harassing me. I do not want to debate what happened with you.

Chewbacca Tue 30-Jun-20 10:32:53

And again, oh the irony!

Smileless2012 Tue 30-Jun-20 10:51:25

Chewbaccagrin.

Starblaze Tue 30-Jun-20 11:08:53

Absurdity

Using someone's previous abuse to hurt them/invalidate them.

Arguing that parents could be sent to prison when any parent willing to risk prison is logically, very likely protecting their child.

Trying to use the murder of a child to prove a point, especially when it doesn't prove the point you want, only that the organisations in place to protect children sometimes make mistakes and allow abusive people access to children.

Trying to goad AEC into to defending themselves to the point that threads are deleted or users banned.

Expecting AEC to apologise or answer questions while doing the opposite yourself, especially not backing up false claims and definitely never admitting you are wrong.

The word you are looking for is absurdity.

Or just plain old ridiculous.

Some just want attention, they don't care if it is positive or negative. Others like myself get tired of it and prefer to shut down absurdity and not engage with it.

Everything that needed to be said on this thread has been said.

Hiding it now. It disgusts me.

Chewbacca Tue 30-Jun-20 11:21:33

Using someone's previous abuse to hurt them/invalidate them
That's been done in both directions.

Arguing that parents could be sent to prison when any parent willing to risk prison is logically, very likely protecting their child.
But it's been proven that there is legal legislation that allows this, however unpalatable it may be.

Trying to use the murder of a child to prove a point, especially when it doesn't prove the point you want, only that the organisations in place to protect children sometimes make mistakes and allow abusive people access to children.
Including quoting about such incidents in Toronto.

Trying to goad AEC into to defending themselves to the point that threads are deleted or users banned
No one is responsible for anyone getting banned from GNHQ except the person themselves.

Expecting AEC to apologise or answer questions while doing the opposite yourself, especially not backing up false claims and definitely never admitting you are wrong.
Including telling a poster that they have received no "formal education" and refusing to acknowledge that this is offensive and apologise for it.

The word you are looking for is absurdity.
Correct.

Some just want attention, they don't care if it is positive or negative.
Correct.

Everything that needed to be said on this thread has been said.
Agreed.

Nonnie Tue 30-Jun-20 11:27:55

Starblaze Tue 30-Jun-20 10:08:36 don't do as I do, do as I tell you!!!

Chewbacca & Smile oh yes.

Starblaze Tue 30-Jun-20 11:08:53 I could explain to you how many of those things you have done to other posters but why waste me time with someone who only gives it out and never apologises?

Chewbacca Tue 30-Jun-20 11:21:33 can you just imagine what awful thing a parent would have done to be sent to prison? Anything that bad should be punished.

Please don't forget getting a factual post deleted because it couldn't be 'verified' and when it was, 3 times, not apologising. Hmmm Not surprised when someone leaves or decides not to 'engage' . We can all see why.

Madgran77 Tue 30-Jun-20 11:55:45

Trying to use the murder of a child to prove a point, especially when it doesn't prove the point you want, only that the organisations in place to protect children sometimes make mistakes and allow abusive people access to children.

That did not happen, as has been explained. Not bothering to explain the point again!

HolyHannah Tue 30-Jun-20 19:29:34

There's always GP's that think like this, "I just wish the Government would give Grandparents some legal rights to see their grandchildren. As it stands, our Adult children hold all the cards and it’s so unfair that Grandparents are not given the same rights as a biological mother or father."

Like how do you even respond to that?

MissAdventure Tue 30-Jun-20 19:55:43

If ever I meet a grandparent who thinks like that, I'll let you know.

HolyHannah Tue 30-Jun-20 19:59:16

I found one -- I just quoted her. Would you like a link MissAdventure?

MissAdventure Tue 30-Jun-20 20:00:12

Yes please. Am I going to regret this? grin

Smileless2012 Tue 30-Jun-20 20:03:50

I don't agree that GP's should be given the same rights as a child's biological parents, but I do agree that AC hold all the cards and that isn't fair to their children when they take away the GP's they know and love.

HolyHannah Tue 30-Jun-20 20:04:28

www.rejectedparents.net/forums/topic/estranged-adult-children/

MissAdventure Tue 30-Jun-20 20:05:24

It's ridiculous to think grandparents would ever have the same rights as parents.

Smileless2012 Tue 30-Jun-20 20:06:19

I don't see why you would regret it MissA. We all know that one swallow doesn't make a summer and that this particular GP isn't representative of all EGP's.

MissAdventure Tue 30-Jun-20 20:07:58

She's talking out of her hat about having the same rights.
I'm sure she wouldn't get far with that notion.

HolyHannah Tue 30-Jun-20 20:09:25

The problem is a few "bad apples" rot the whole basket and one GP thinking 'that' is too many and she's not alone.

Smileless2012 Tue 30-Jun-20 20:11:20

She wouldn't get to court that's for sure MissA and a good job too.

She does a great disservice to all EGP's IMO, because no doubt someone somewhere would try to use this in an attempt to discredit all EGP's wanting to get contact with their GC.

MissAdventure Tue 30-Jun-20 20:11:54

I can agree with you, there holyhannah. (probably the first time ever!) smile
Grandparents on here are sometimes reminded "They're not your children!"

Smileless2012 Tue 30-Jun-20 20:12:46

If the bad apples are identified in time and removed, the rest of the basket remains unaffected.

HolyHannah Tue 30-Jun-20 20:15:11

Yes. But when a "bad apple" sees itself as 'good' and stays/is allowed to remain, the whole basket will continue to rot...