Hope For Estranged Grandparents

I'm not stupid Starblaze so understood your comment and your reasons for making it.

"Unless of course they had a solid interest in bullying me with their friends" are you accusing me of being a bully, and not for the first time? If so, I suggest instead of doing so in your usual 'not in so many words' format you state your accusation directly and then provide evidence to substantiate your allegation.

If you are unable to do so, I suggest you keep your badly disguised accusations to yourself.

Smileless people would have to be stupid not to understand my comment and very stupid indeed not to understand my clarification and realise from there.

Unless of course they had a solid interest in bullying me with their friends.

Which, although I will name it for what it is, doesn't work on me.

Ah yes Nonnie but Chewbacca's post on Saturday 17.59 springs to mind.

Nonnie I think you are confusing me with someone else, I have already clarified all my comments to you, I have offerred a genuine apology (as apposed to your apology blaming me for being upset) for when I was harsh and I'm not interesting in debating what happened with you.

There may be data available with regard to the number of cases that go to court Nonnie but that wouldn't include cases that didn't get that far due to the court not giving GP's leave, which would be a fail for the GP's, or cases where GP's managed to arrange contact with their GC through mediation, which would be a success.

Smileless2012 Mon 29-Jun-20 17:36:43 suggest you repeat that every few pages so it sinks in. Failed to do so far I'm afraid.

I reiterate that when the adults cannot agree the court decides. I don't think any of us know what criteria they use, we can guess but I suspect there are several elements depending on the individual case.

Starblaze Mon 29-Jun-20 13:59:51 unless you answer my questions about your accusations how can I? You have made some very unpleasant comments about me and effectively called me a liar. Surely even you can't expect me to forget or base my opinions on anything else. You can't just sweep it all away.

MamaBear20 Mon 29-Jun-20 14:43:04 are you in the UK? We don't have 'visitation rights' in the UK, we have Child Arrangement Orders.

I'm really surprised that you have read all the thread and concluded that anyone thinks a gp wants to be a '3rd parent'. Please show me any posts which express that thought.

I think if you look again you will see that gps all want what is best for the children but, if I am mistaken, please show me the posts which show otherwise. Thanks

Starblaze Mon 29-Jun-20 15:00:24 Has anyone suggested otherwise? You've confused me again. I thought you were anti gps succeeding in court under any circumstances if the parent opposes it.

Starblaze Mon 29-Jun-20 17:22:35 and the family court takes everything into consideration.

Does anyone have data to show how many GPs apply and fail or succeed or is this all anecdotal? As the family courts are confidential I wonder if that information is available.

Some of us have spent 32 pages discussing the importance of an established and positive relationship with GP's in a child's life.

We are all well aware that some GP's are cut off because they are not "significant to the child's care, welfare and development" and that some GP's are cut off, even though they are.

Many grandparents that have been cut off from a child do not meet that criteria I am afraid. Which is why it exists and is important to mention

Many GP's are I'm sure significant to the child's care, welfare and development which is why denying children that relationship is not in their best interests.

Don't forget the caveat Smileless that they have to be significant to the child's care, welfare and development. Which grandparents need to prove.

Welcome to GN MamaBeasr

No I don't think GP's should be treated as 3rd parents and I don't believe that the current provision within the law, enabling GP's with the court's permission to be granted a contact order is treating them as such.

With few cases reaching court, and even fewer being successful, the probability of aunts, uncles and cousins is even less likely to succeed.

All children have a legal right to know their extended family which includes the aforementioned and TBH I don't know if they are automatically denied an opportunity to obtain a contact order as they don't have GP status.

I don't agree that courts have given GP's a 3rd party dynamic let alone are supporting them in that respect.

I’ve been reading on this site for some time but I’ve only just joined. I’ve been dealing with estrangement for two years and it’s been enlightening for me to read about other people’s views on the subject, both from the EAC view and and grandparents view.
One thing that stands out to me as a theme in this issue, is grandparents acting as “3rd parents”. Why is it that grandparents can petition for visitation rights, just as divorced parents can, when aunts, uncles, cousins cannot? What makes the grandparent relationship more important that there is that ability within the law?
Also, I realize everyone has their own painful story of estrangement, but a theme I’ve seen many times seems to often be grandparents acting as 3rd parents, pushing their parenting knowledge on their adult children instead of allowing them to figure things out for themselves, while being available with their knowledge if asked for advice.
I’m wondering what you all make of this? Should grandparents be treated as 3rd parents? Or is their role on par with any other relative? Has this blurred line been the cause of so much grief? And is the court system right in supporting the 3rd parent dynamic?

Nonnie I have tried to move past this with you several times. If you would like to change how I think of you, communicate in a way that shows you have moved past this anger.

Starblaze Mon 29-Jun-20 10:43:05 I don't accept your 'faulty perception' of me. You could not be more wrong it you tried. Have you tried or is it lack of understanding of my words?

Pythagorus wise words.

Nonnie I accept your faulty perception of me

Oh dear! Just been reading through this thread. I felt the anger and irritation some of the posters were feeling ..... it seeps into you ..... you can’t stop it. It seems to me that is just discussing ones situation with outsiders can invoke such strong emotions, one can see how estrangements can happen within families. Family harmony, love and mutual caring are fostered by love and mutual caring. Putting others needs before our own. The basic tenets of my Christian upbringing and I try hard to live by them. I always avoid the acute angle! Never seek confrontation. I just remove myself from bad situations. You can’t change anyone else but you can remove yourself from harm.

Projection is a common practice especially on the estrangement threads Nonnie.

Absolutely Star and so are you. You have, amongst less pleasant things, said I am intelligent and my 'perceptions' therefore are based on 'intelligent' observations of what people have posted on this thread. It is obvious that some have taken their own experience and projected it onto others who don't deserve it.

Nonnie Your perceptions are your perceptions

Pantglas2 Sun 28-Jun-20 12:44:22 so very happy for you. So much evidence that GPs are a positive influence on the GC so should be encouraged whenever possible.

Thank you Dawn for your kind words.

At the time of the estrangement I was desolate but knew that the worst thing I could do where my DD and SIL were concerned would be to challenge their control over their lives - from what I’ve read on these threads, that is a massive threat to EAC and I knew that instinctively.

I stepped back and waited, many years of sadness, but always with the hope that eventually there could be reconciliation. We achieved that many years ago now, with small steps at the beginning and with no recriminations about my behaviour during the dark days so my instinct was right for us.

I hope everyone has a resolution to this awful situation whether that is by letting things be or efforts towards reconciliation ?

Thank you Smile?
I love to say positive things because it is a heart breaking enough situation and in all the many nuances of estrangement we have to find positives even for our own sakes.
We have to hope for the best as l always say.
Take care too Smile and a good day. Dawn.

Wibby Sun 28-Jun-20 11:18:24 I am sure many share your view and it really depends on the individual situation. The OP had probably thought it all through and decided it was worth it for the sake of the GC. If the relationship with the parent/s was irretrievable that should not be a reason for the GC to lose people they love.