Is 'No Contact' abuse?

I must disagree with you there. From what I have read here on GN, parents have been estranged because their adult child knew it would cause pain.

Of course it will, if you estrange parents who raised you with love and care, and stop them from seeing their grand children, how could it not.

Saying that no contact is chosen because a response is wanted doesn't make sense. Why then are some parents/grand parents threatened with, and in some cases contacted by the police?

No contact to ensure that the adult child gets their own way, if that is ever the case, for me is emotional abuse, emotional blackmail and yet, you say you don't think no contact is abuse.

That's the topic of the discussion seasidelass

Is No Contact abuse?

I don't think it is but I do think that some parents are cut off unfairly.

Yes personally I don't believe people who cut off others in order to punish them or get their own way have gone "No Contact" because they want a response, they want to know they have caused pain or to know when they are going to get their own way

I think it's based on what you see the term 'no contact' meaning in relation to your personal experiences VioletSky, which is perfectly reasonable, but it is not the only meaning of the term as a post yesterday from Madgran explained very well.

It's purely based on what I have previously said about what "No Contact" as a term means and relevant to that context seasidelass

But the article is about 'cutting ties with toxic parents' and it isn't only toxic parents who become estranged. Useful I'm sure for those who have estranged toxic parents, but irrelevant to those estranged parents who are not toxic.

This explains, quite fairly I think, no contact and why it isn't a solution on its own and also alternatives to try, which I did without knowing that was what I was doing at the time.

psychcentral.com/health/does-going-no-contact-with-a-parent-heal-you-the-answer-isnt-what-you-think

I had to jump through some hoops to get a link so I could post it lol

Gransnet often seems to pick up on and deal with unpleasantness on threads thankfully.

That's true. I remember when it became really unpleasant and GNHQ acted very quickly in banning the offenders.

I think many of us have seen/experienced unpleasantness and ignored it (or not) Violet

Gransnet “pick up on “ issues when posters report them
It’s very lightly moderated so without reports wouldn’t be aware of concerns

I think that these discussions matter, I've seen plenty of unpleasantness, some of which was directed at me and ignored it because it doesnt make sense to the discussion, especially not to people trying to join it.

Gransnet often seems to pick up on and deal with unpleasantness on threads thankfully.

I sometimes think that shutting down a discussion is the desired outcome Madgran and I agree with your points about "you can't see it". Yes, it's seen but is being disagreed with.

Regardless of whether or not some may find such comments trigger emotions, IMO they're unpleasant and unnecessary

I agree re judgemental comments. Completely unnecessary

My own comments on "triggers" was in reply to triggers being raised, and linked to how often I see someone saying they haven't seen something judgemental, or whatever, and then being dismissed as "you can't see it" or "you don't know what you can't see" etc, which is a cop out to avoid accepting that someone just doesn't agree with a view expressed!

It puts any poster stating that they haven't seen something claimed by another poster, in a no win situation. It also shuts down a discussion which isn't helpful.

I haven't necessarily seen it on this thread but as I have been told that several times on threads when I have said I haven't seen something, I thought I'd pre-empt that possibility. In every case that I have been told that it has actually been that I quite simply don't agree rather than I "don't know what I haven't seen!" ?

I agree with you Seasidelass and it's this particular thread that's being discussed when it comes to judgemental comments, in particular when posters are being doubted and ridiculed.

Regardless of whether or not some may find such comments trigger emotions, IMO they're unpleasant and unnecessary.

That's a good point Allsorts.

Well the comments are not a "trigger" for me, I just think they create a "no win" situation! . Such comments certainly are a way of shutting down a discussion when someone just believes they are right or can't justify their claims, woukd be my observation.

Madgran I try to be very patient with those sorts of comments because it's an emotional topic, no one has limitless patience though and we all have our triggers

The tone and language used by some, is very provoking and appears they know everything about anyones situation. I still can’t see if happily estranged you would be bothered by an estrangement forum.

I have seen judgemental comments directed at EPs and EAC on various threads. Not particularly at EAC on this one. That can be dismissed as "not seeing what you don't want to" "not knowing what you don't see" "not understanding" as it has been previously to me ..so it's a bit of a no win situation if one says one hasn't seen something!
In my view it's often about interpretation of what has been said. Understandably, we are all different and see the same things differently. I think that particularly can happen on a written forum.

I've been reading through this thread and haven't seen any judgemental comments directed at those who estranged parents. As others have said, there are some directed at estranged parents so I think that's what's being criticised here, and rightly so.

I agree VioletSky that "we all know the truth about our own relationships" so no one's truth should be at best doubted and at worse ridiculed by others.

I've had many judgemental comments and I know people like to say that doesn't happen to EAC but it does.

We all know the truth about our own relationships but can't always know the truth about our own children's relationships based on our opinion of it. Same way my mother hated my husband and blames him for my estrangement, same way I get blamed for my husband not being in contact with his mother. Both of us tried to help the other have a good relationship because both of us were really blaming ourselves on some level for our own bad relationships.

That was an interesting one to resolve eventually

Yes smiles, many judgemental comments

To use an Americanism there's no closure. As you say Iam there are none of the rituals that there are with bereavement, no final 'goodbye'.

For many shame, guilt and embarrassment, despite there being no reason to feel that way, prevent them from being able to talk about it, to 'admit' that they have an AC who refuses to have anything to do with them.

It is a living bereavement.

Even on a forum like this, where there are threads specifically for this subject, some try to make others feel that way. For me, it doesn't work but I'm sure there are others who are upset by some of the posts they see.

I agree smilesless, acceptance helps but it doesn’t take away the loss. It’s like a bereavement, with none of the rituals that offer some support. Also it’s something those who haven’t experienced it, find it hard to discuss and sadly often offer simplistic advice to ‘mend’ the estrangement

It's good that your family managed to avoid it love0c. Communication is key and as your situation shows, even if that communication is argumentative and confrontational, it's very existence can prevent an estrangement.

When there is no communication, estrangement is inevitable.

As you say Chewbacca, any poster's account of their estrangement has to be taken at face value, whether they've been estranged or are the one who has estranged.

I don't know why it's necessary for some to voice their doubts on the validity of what EP's say to invalidate their experience. This isn't done to EAC and rightly so.

Even those of us who have decided "not to allow estrangement to define (our) lives" live with the loss and the pain that it brings Iam. Acceptance only goes so far IMO. You can accept that it's happened and that things will never change, but for us that'd as far as our acceptance goes.

That's very true Allsorts. Estrangement threads can offer support and a better understanding but as you say, if it didn't matter, there wouldn't be any.

I also find that the "responses on here clarify a lot".

I do think estrangement happens for all different reasons and occurs for many different happenings? We did think at one point it may happen for us (parents and grandparents) Thank God it did not. But the terrible arguments, the things we all said to each other, the trying to make the other see they were in the wrong? we were all completely worn out, emotionally and physically really. we did not sleep for weeks but our adult child said the same. We somehow managed to get through it and call a truce, I guess. We still have bumps but we as parents let it go and I tend to think our AC thinks the same about us. Life affects us, people affect us, we all change and we end up as we are. I hope for all those that have total estrangement enjoy long periods of calm and peace and indeed forgetfulness.