Is 'No Contact' abuse?

Really!!! can you give specific examples of any comments on this thread that allege "estranged children here, who state they have gone no contact due to abuse, have committed abuse" Violetsky.

This thread was started more than a year ago but I have been on it from the beginning. My recollection is that it has been stated time and time again that anyone estranging an abuser is not themselves being abusive.

I could argue that some comments on this same thread allege that estranged children here, who state they have gone no contact due to abuse, have committed abuse.

Discussion itself often can be painful but we can all listen and understand why people feel as they do without agreeing they are right to feel that way.

It's easy to get quite defensive on this topic and pick and choose what we hear and take from it.

I'm not accusing you of doing so Violetsky and this maybe a discussion thread as opposed to a support one, but that doesn't alter the fact that some of the contributors to this thread have talked of how their experience of being estranged, is for them an act of abuse, and have been told they are wrong.

Excellent post Madgran.

I would say that causing someone pain doesn't make a person abusive, unless they have a history of being abusive. Unless they used and abused then discarded you.

Some of the stories on here appear to be exactly that scenario.

I think it's probably better to simply be sympathetic to real genuine emotional distress and remember that estrangement often causes pain for both parties and both deserve to be heard

On here we usually only hear one parties experience of estrangement or fear of estrangement. We hear their viewpoint, how they have experienced it. Some feel they have been abused. Some do not. Listening to , empathising, giving constructive critical advice can be a helpful response for that person. It doesn't mean that the fact that estrangement causes pain and distress to both parties has been forgotten

A strength if this estrangement forum is when estranged EPs get constructive, empathetic and thoughtful advice including from estranged AC, who are able to objectively consider the perspective of the poster despite their own negative parental experiences. And also when EAC who post about their distress get constructive, empathetic and thoughtful advice from other posters, including EPs who are also able to objectively consider the perspective of the poster despite, their own negative AC experiences

In both cases there is clearly a recognition of pain for all/both parties, in different circumstances

Smileless2012 we are still on a discussion not a support thread and I would never tell someone who felt abused they are wrong.

Of course that doesn't mean they are right either.

It really depends if they are hoping for a reconsiliation and in some cases calling estrangement abuse may hinder their ability to look past their feelings and consider the feelings of the other side.

Usually among people who have given or received reasons for estrangement their is a huge disconnect in versions of events.

My mother simply says "that didn't happen" so there is no possibility for her to understand my feelings, respect my boundaries or reconsile. She only wants to discuss what an awful person estranging makes me, she will not have anything to do with what led me to estrange.

Even if I was mentally ill and completely unstable (I'm not I've checked) and she did not do any of the things that I have told her drove me away, there is absolutely no consideration on her part for how my truth has impacted me or how I feel.

So with time I've had to accept that there is no chance for her to really see me and the impact her behaviour had on me. So I've moved on and just worked on healing myself.

She however is stuck, going over and over the fact I have estranged myself and her grandchildren. Never making any attempt to reflect on herself or her behaviour or how hard it must be for a child to self orphan.

I really don't think her belief that she has been abused and others telling her I am abusive would ever help her.

So I can't agree that the act of estrangement itself is abuse unless there is a history of abusive behaviour by the person who estranged.

It isn't possible for us here on GN to hear from both parties, we only hear from the people who choose to share their experiences of estrangement/no contact. We are though able to hear from those who have experienced either being estranged/denied contact or being the one that has estranged/denied someone contact.

I totally agree that we should "be sympathetic to real genuine emotional distress" and that "both deserve to be heard" which is why, when someone says that being estranged has been and continues to be experienced as abuse, no one should say they are wrong.

I would say that I did not estrange to cause pain but to protect myself. I am sure that my mother would say I estranged to cause her pain and that is therefore abuse.

Is causing someone pain abuse? Is leaving an unhappy marriage abuse? Is leaving any unhappy relationship abuse?

There is no doubt that leaving a relationship causes pain and I would assume that most people leaving a relationship know that. Does that make leaving any relationship abuse knowing doing so will cause pain? I don't think so. Ending an unhappy relationship leaves both parties the ability to find better more genuine connections and ultimately happiness.

I would say that causing someone pain doesn't make a person abusive, unless they have a history of being abusive. Unless they used and abused then discarded you.

I don't think any of us have the ability or right to judge the intent of the people behind the many many people who have chosen estrangement or the end of any relationships by whether or not that causes pain. I think it's probably better to simply be sympathetic to real genuine emotional distress and remember that estrangement often causes pain for both parties and both deserve to be heard.

Horses for courses

No she wasn't correct Norah and neither are you. Depending on the circumstances, the act of estrangement can be and often is, by its very nature abuse.

HolyHannah is correct. "No. No Contact is not abuse. No one can abuse anyone they are not in contact with."

Smileless, Remove old. The person is navigating and resetting relationships. People are capable of non-abusive estrangement. If estranged, who is to be abused?

There you again Norah assuming that all AC estrange to avoid "the emotional minefield that is navigating old dynamics" when sometimes the emotional minefield they find themselves in, and are desperately trying to navigate, isn't an old one at all, its the new one they find themselves in because of the partner they have chosen.

So you're not neutral then are you Norah and you are making assumptions. No consideration of the different circumstances surrounding estrangement, just a blinkered, tunnel visioned view that no contact isn't abuse. "Estranging is *not an abuse, not at all*"!!!!

In no contact, people can focus on what's important: new relationships, friendships, work, personal passions - with none of the emotional minefield that is navigating old dynamics. Worrying less as a consequence. This solution applied well to my daughters' husbands.

Smileless you post "but you do Norah when you say no contact is not abuse" I think not, I stay neutral, without assumptions. And yes, I think No Contact or Ghosting or Estranging is not an abuse, not at all.

"I make no assumptions about fault or abuse in an estrangement" but you do Norah when you say no contact is not abuse.

I don't think my daughters are a burden, I do not say that. I think many times childminding for others is a burden. I'd gladly share that uncomfortable position.

Norah you consider child minding a burden? If so why did you have children if they where a burden?

Smileless "Comfortable position"? I'd see comfort as others to share the childmind burden. I make no assumptions about fault or abuse in an estrangement. My daughters husbands each have their own reasons.

Yes, to me it is a term of protection, a "No Contact Rule" to follow to break free from an abusive person whoever that may be.

It's a way to overcome any attempts they make to use guilt, gaslighting or declarations of love that may lower your defences and send you back to an abusive relationship.

There were times when I tried to avoid my mother or ignore her in order to recover from things she had done or said and and because I was trying to prevent the situation escalating into arguments. All of the tactics I stated above would be used by her and I was unable to rise above them.

With support I went No Contact and that decision was one where I would not allow her to hurt me any more. I would not retaliate or answer or bite back, I would not have false hope that things could be mended, I would not allow abuse.

I do understand how no contact and estrangement is the same outcome for the relationship itself and I understand that I am estranged but for me it is a different way to end a relationship.

Thank you for understanding

Over the years of reading about, and being on a number of on line sites for parents who have been estranged, no contact, cutting off and estrangement are all terms used, and here on GN AC will say they are estranged from parents as often as saying they have gone no contact.

I can see what you're saying but do think we need to be careful in assuming that if an adult says they have gone no contact it automatically means they have been abused, as this is not always the case.

Thank you, I'm sorry for the situation you have with your mother and hope as I have, that you've found the passage of time deadens the pain, and that regardless of how much we may love them, our lives are better without them.

I am not taking "no contact" to mean the same thing as "estrangement" or "silent treatment" or "cut off" or any other term

This may explain your question to me above Violetsky. To me "estrangement" and "no contact" are effectively the same thing described by two different words. But I do understand that you are linking "no contact" specifically to a choice because of abuse.

Yes Smileless2012 I hadn't thought of it in that wide a terms as I just directly answered the question posed by Holyhannah.

I am not taking "no contact" to mean the same thing as "estrangement" or "silent treatment" or "cut off" or any other term.

Obviously "No Contact" has a deeper meaning for me but I haven't attached to that any judgement on other people's situations.

That iz what that term means to me and others I know who have ceased contact with any abusive person. It's the way the term is used by other victims of abuse I have conversed with, in literature and in articles I have read so it matters to me that when I say I am no contact it is understood that I mean I was forced to be no contact with an abusive person.

I hope I have explained well enough for you what the distinction is when I hear that term. I am sure I would correct anyone who used that term to explain their punishment of someone undeserving.

I am very sorry you are estranged from your son. It must be very painful for you.

do you mean that their child has actively said "I am going No Contact with you"?

I just mean that I have seen the term "No contact" used by people who have been estranged by someone else. Sometime they find themselves estranged just after a positive time with that person, leaving them confused! In some cases the person estranging has told them. In some cases the person estranging has just blocke3d their number etc.

Whatever, my point is that there can be no "general" assumption that estrangement has been caused because someone has been abused, either emotionally or physically.

I think we would all love, not just the term but the act of going no contact/estrangement to be reserved for those who need to break free from an abusive person VioletSky, but as countless of examples just here on GN can attest too, this is not the only reason.

As you have posted neither you or any of us have "control over how others use the term sadly" or any control over those who go no contact/estrange their non abusive parents.

Our ES wrote and told us we were no longer a part of his and our GC's lives; I think it's pretty reasonable to regard that as him 'going no contact'/estranging us his non abusive parents, especially as that was more than 8 years ago and nothing has changed.