Is 'No Contact' abuse?

*don't sorry - not done

abusive people can make just about anything abuse...
yes starblaze exactly
I haven't always replied to you starblaze as I haven't always felt there was anything to add, or wanted to mull things over. This is true of many people. I also, due to health issues, miss a lot or just read bits and pieces but don't get involved. I've seen you put a lot of valueable input in though, and I can see your skill at getting things across well more and more. I can also see how you can listen (read) as well as speak. That's not me being condescending, those skills done always shine out for everyone on a forum.

same old same old summerlove

Thank you Starblaze, it was not a thread that I could easily forget.

So do I Madgran, I'm listening to you just so you know lol

Thankyou hugshelp. I do have a genuine wish to help (quite often with some hard messages if I think that is what is needed) and advise but clearly don't always manage to get it right and I do feel sometimes misinterpreted. (I got the joke!! ; I'm actually not easily offended!!)

Definitely going to think about Vocabulary though for communicating on online Forums, its important!

I agree hugshelp I think I also said the same thing earlier on the thread, abusive people can make just about anything abuse...

Madgran77 I cant be sure what I think I'm hearing is what you think you're saying. None of us can.

All I can say is from the posts I have seen you make (and forgive me but my memory is awful and I dip in out) you seem like a soul with a good heart.

(or you keep the axe well hidden) <<<<JOKE alert.

Responding only to your opening question and remarks all I can say is that going NC is not abusive. ….But that it can be used abusively if someone does it simply to punish someone or uses it as an unreasonable threat

I agree Hugshelp

I do believe that interpretation and perception play a big part in some of the misunderstanding on here. Trying to explain a point of view, clarify a previous point can be very difficult and inadvertently come over the wrong way ...exactly like my earlier point upthread when MOD raised the use of the word "point" that I used, as opposed to the word "observation"( without her comment it would never have struck me as a potential issue for misunderstanding)

Equally I am aware of genuinely supporting a poster in the past and then trying to clarify something later, which appeared to be then completely misunderstood ...probably because of the words I used or the way I expressed myself ...but very clearly a misunderstanding to me, resulting in a misinterpretation of what I was trying to say.

Hugshelp I think you are very good at expressing yourself in a way that might just avoid the problem.

I am unclear how "questionable friends" can come into an on line forum really. I think that sometimes, when a poster agrees with one poster rather than another that is interpreted as being their "friend" when in fact the focus is on what is being said rather than the poster. Which can also create the issue I am talking about above.

I expect I am not expressing myself very well here either ...just pondering really!!

Oh dear, this seems to be going all over the place. Very good points about assessing how someone means things starblaze. But of course new people and less prolific visitors will still struggle.

HolyHannah - can I ask what you want to achieve from your original post? Where was it coming from? Maybe we can get things back on track if we go back to where you were starting from. Did you mean only if AC go no contact with their parents? That wasn't actually clear to me.

Responding only to your opening question and remarks all I can say is that going NC is not abusive.

But that it can be used abusively if someone does it simply to punish someone or uses it as an unreasonable threat. Even if you think no AC would do that, maybe you will agree some parents might, or were they excluded from the question?

Some have said abusive partners have co-erced their spouse into going NC. It can be argued (and yes people will argue both ways) that only those who have been abused will attract a partner that is abusive. Either way if that person is abusive and forces the NC then isn't that still abuse?

Even after going NC, if the estranged parties are linked via other people or long-term finances abusive behaviour is possible. I know someone who due to estrangement didn't pass on the death of parents to a sibling and tried to cut them out of their own parents funeral. Long story and I'm not even going to try and go into the outs but it can't be right to take those decisions away from another.

And I've seen GP say they will be allowed back in if they cough up a lot of money - rare but I've seen it said.

The trouble is I'm not sure any of that is of interest to you, which is fine. But what are you looking for in your question? Maybe if we can understand that we can support you.

Sorry, I only have the GN 'smiley's' and there isn't a medal one.

I should definitely get a medal for patience but the well done will do me fine

Oh no Starblaze well done to you

Lol now that was the actual definition of irony Smileless

Well done

MotherofDragons I know us AEC don't very often fall over ourselves to agree with each other. Because we don't want to appear as some sort of ganga d like to be treated individually.

We don't do the ganging up thing that some EPs plus questionable friends do especially.... like sending smilies or flowers and laughing at each others mean comments. Like sending out batsignals or back patting or encouraging ostrasising behaviour... Or just plain old glossing over anything bad another EP in the clique does and then pretending like nothing happened when the EP then says, actually I did mean it the way it was taken!

Mostly because we are quite different to each other and don't agree on everything anyway lol

I wanted to say though that your assessment of how that post (thread! When am going to get this?) went was spot on.

If someone has consistently showed a dislike for you and a determination to take everything you day with all the possible negativity they can possibly squeeze out of it, even when you try to clarify and explain. Or they repeatedly repeat behaviours that they know make you personally uncomfortable, then I would say you are probably right in your instincts.

Absolutely Starblaze and I don't think my instincts are right, I know they are.

A lot of times people say things that can be taken different ways. What you need to work out is, is it deliberate or accidental?

If base that decision on general behaviour.

If someone has consistently showed a dislike for you and a determination to take everything you say with all the possible negativity they can possibly squeeze out of it, even when you try to clarify and explain. Or they repeatedly repeat behaviours that they know make you personally uncomfortable, then I would say you are probably right in your instincts.

If others constantly make an effort to engage productively, move away from confrontation once anger has passed and try to follow others rules (about how they expect you to engage and express yourself, even though they don't follow their own rules) then perhaps you really aren't seeing the whole picture.

Another re printed post take out of context MOD because the full back story hasn't been given. elena's D accusing her step father of abusing his own D's, as well as his GD. The latter of which was in investigated and no charges were made

Really, another post taken “out of context”? I provided the context - posters were urging her to seek counselling to help her see the part she had to play in her estrangement.

Was that the full backstory Smileless? All of it? Or have you just mentioned the parts that paint Elana’s daughter as the problem?

You fail to mention the reason for Elana’s estrangement - that Elana’s grandson told his mother (Elana’s daughter) that he had been sexually abused by his cousin (Elana’s granddaughter). Elana accused her grandson of lying and even insinuated that he had been coached by his parents.

Then if I remember correctly, accusing her own brother of abusing his D. So the suggestion that the D in this case needs therapy is reasonable

Is it so surprising that Elana’s daughter lashed out in an attempt to find out the source of the abuse, when everyone else was denying it happened, especially given Elana’s daughter has a young daughter herself?

Elana’s posts were worrying, especially given that she was unable to recognise sexual abuse, and beyond the help of anyone on this board and that was why she was encouraged to seek counselling. But there you were, discouraging her from looking too closely at her own actions:

It's your D who needs therapy but unless she realises this, there's nothing you can do. You say she wants you to disown your GD, your son and his family and your DH, and you're right it is ridiculous

Your D has a problem that needs professional help and all you can do is hope that she realises this and gets the help she needs

Doing nothing but hoping that her daughter realises that she needs professional help is certainly not all Elana could do to help her situation!

But 10/10 for encouraging Elana to place all responsibility for her situation with her daughter.

If anyone wants to read Elana’s story in it’s original “context”, then it can be found on the threads What else can I do for my daughter to want me in her life and Frightened I will never see her or overcome this block.

Another re printed post take out of context MOD because the full back story hasn't been given. elena's D accusing her step father of abusing his own D's, as well as his GD. The latter of which was in investigated and no charges were made.

Then if I remember correctly, accusing her own brother of abusing his D. So the suggestion that the D in this case needs therapy is reasonable.

Namsnanny

You cant protect children when you are wasting time arguing the toss here or anywhere.
Is easy to have principles it's time consuming to turn them.into practical use.

How do you know she isn’t?

Was your earlier claim about abusers arguing online pointed at people here?

Seems to me that’s usually what you argue against - calling grandparents abusers.

Interesting that it’s ok for you to call out abuse, but not EAC

Ah yes I remember the posts from elena and I with many others suggesting among other things, that she take a step back and not talk to her GS on the 'phone or at the window of her D's house because it was putting him in a difficult position.

The problem wasn’t putting grandson in a difficult position. It was (if I recall correctly) that his mother asked Elena not to have contact. But she was doing it anyway under the impression of “see? He does want to talk to me! She lied!”

Ah yes I remember the posts from elena and I with many others suggesting among other things, that she take a step back and not talk to her GS on the 'phone or at the window of her D's house because it was putting him in a difficult position

No, I was thinking of the comments made to elana when posters were urging her to seek counselling to help her see the part she had to play in her estrangement:

It's your D who needs therapy but unless she realises this, there's nothing you can do. You say she wants you to disown your GD, your son and his family and your DH, and you're right it is ridiculous

Your D has a problem that needs professional help and all you can do is hope that she realises this and gets the help she needs

How is this not actively discouraging the poster from self reflection?

The posts I referred too as being taken out of context, were taken out of context and this was commented on, not just by the poster who'd posted them originally, but by other GN's

Again, I don’t see how the context has changed. There are also other GN’s who don’t believe the posts were taken out of context.

You cant protect children when you are wasting time arguing the toss here or anywhere.
Is easy to have principles it's time consuming to turn them.into practical use.

"Maybe this is the wrong thread, maybe I'm an idiot, but today I feel strong enough to say I want to call out against the abusers who spend all their time saying they defend children but actually are attacking people who may not even exist (invented personna) what a waste!"

Protecting minor children should be everyone's goal. The issue is, what is in the "best interests" of the minor children and WHO gets to decide what is "best" for those children.

Some GP's seem to feel that it is them and when they don't get 'their way' they go on the attack calling the parents (their own child) abusers, immature and a litany of other unflattering things.

Is it in the 'best interests' of minor children to have their parents undermined by people who believe due to age/'maturity' that they know better/best? Maybe or maybe not.

However, I don't recall my parents or their parents (my grand-parents) having to bow/answer to a "higher authority" while raising me, so why the shift now? Why are younger parents now seen as so incompetent that unless they keep their parents/grand-parents in their life they are deemed 'not good' parents at best and abusive at worst?

I always try to look at a situation from the perspective of my 'mom' and I would conclude that she knows she wasn't a 'good parent' and didn't teach/lead by example what that is. Knowing 'that', she could easily conclude I am going to be/am a 'bad parent'. So I suppose in her twisted view, my children would be better off if she was around to 'protect' them.

The only glitch in that is, she doesn't 'see'/acknowledge the part that includes, SHE is NOT the model of what a "good parent" IS but she BELIEVES she IS. She can believe whatever she wants. That doesn't translate to reality.

Exposing children to known abusers is abuse itself regardless of the level of "supervision". Keeping our abusive parents in the same world as our vulnerable children would be proving them correct.