Is 'No Contact' abuse?

HolyHannah That’s the problem with the internet - you can’t claim to have not said something when it’s there in black and white. But it doesn’t appear to matter. The pull of denial is strong...

I have also seen estranged parents detail behaviour that is clearly problematic, only to be met with “but you were a good and loving mother” (how is that for an assumption), “your son/daughter should not be treating you like this, their behaviour leaves a lot to be desired” and “don’t try to understand, there is no understanding!”.

I have seen that , or similar, too.

But far more often when problematic behaviour is detailed people are told in no uncertain terms that their behaviour is not right, causing the problem etc. Some posters manage to give hard messages effectively and are able to help the OP look differently at their situation. It is always good to see when that happens, someone struggling and not being able to look at their own behaviour, being helped to consider things differently which might just help them to turn things round.

I always hope it might work for them when I see that because it is obvious that they are able to consider and take on board good advice, and respond to it.

Sounds like the conversations I have with our DS which end up in laughter.

I don't mind Smileless it's just an observation anyway. Not important in the grand scheme of things.

Just spent 10 minutes giggling with one of my AC because I told him I was settling in to watching the finale of one of my favourite series and he told me it was pronounced "fin=alley" and we had to look it up because after a time both our ways of saying it sounded completely wrong. It didn't matter in the end who was right, the laughing mattered.

Saying that, there was a poster on here a few weeks ago demonstrating that she did have some insight into her estrangement, but that was quickly discouraged.

I remember that too but I don't remember her being discouraged?? What was said to her?

It's not OK for an EP to say that having done a lot of soul searching that they can, in all honesty say they didn't do or say anything to cause their estrangement

Why is it "not ok"! for them to say that if that is where they are at or that is how they see it? They may be right or they may be wrong; we may not believe them or we may believe them.

Either way, they have every right to say it if that is what they believe; its their life.

I have also seen estranged parents detail behaviour that is clearly problematic, only to be met with “but you were a good and loving mother” (how is that for an assumption), “your son/daughter should not be treating you like this, their behaviour leaves a lot to be desired” and “don’t try to understand, there is no understanding!”.

Sorry Starblaze couldn't make head nor tail of your last post.

"Even when some EP's are telling the truth, I guess it's lies" it seems to be that way to some EAC without a doubt.

What is the line that has to be towed?

MoD -- Or if they do admit that 'things happened' and then later change the story to proclaim 100% innocence, any previous statements that they did know what "started things" are deemed a lie... Or something I guess.

Even when some EP's are telling the truth, I guess it's lies... I can't follow dysfunctional 'logic'...

I said that AEC aren't welcome here, and that's wrong, it's anyone who doesn't tow a certain line including other estranged parents who may get told they were in the wrong but may not call certain others here "in the wrong" and not many have made it into the "not wrong clique" since then

Basically

Which is horrifying and sad to me.

I seem to remember that post but don't remember the poster being discouraged. Can you provide the name of the thread and which forum it was on, so I can go back and have a look at that?

Yes, there have been people who have said that, and there have also been people who have posted full of indignation who have come to accept that they're wrong, and have thanked those who answered their thread.
Then there are others...

"I think most EP here have sole searched many times wondering what they did wrong" and for some that's only OK if they say that something they did or said was the reason for their estrangement

It's not OK for an EP to say that having done a lot of sole searching that they can, in all honesty say they didn't do or say anything to cause their estrangement

Has anyone actually read anything by an estranged parent saying that they did do or say something to cause their estrangement?

Saying that, there was a poster on here a few weeks ago demonstrating that she did have some insight into her estrangement, but that was quickly discouraged.

Well if it was EP to EP what's your point? I'm sure it's nothing you wouldn't find on a site or thread where there were no EP's and it was just EAC to EAC?

I've seen worse here on GN from EAC to EAC where there are EP's and EGP's reading and posting, as referred too in my previous post!!

Not blankety at all although blankets are supposed to be warm snuggly things

I don't doubt the pain estranged parents feel Smileless not for a second. I just don't always know where it came from in all cases

There weren't AEC on those threads then, it was purely EP to EP. I could quote or screenshot but it would just get deleted.

I've never seen a poster here on GN respond to an abused EAC in that way.

What's wrong with saying to an EAC who hasn't spoken of abuse at the hands of their parent(s) "In the nicest possible way, do you think that maybe what you said/did was a bit harsh and maybe that could be something you could look into"?

For goodness sake, EP's get that all the time and often not as sympathetically expressed. We get the old 'no smoke without fire'; AC never estrange decent, kind and loving parents, an AC would never be manipulated by their abusive coercive partner to estrange their parents, and this is one of the most outrageous things I have ever seen addressed to an EP. That an AC who establishes an adult relationship with an adult abuser, must have learned to accept abuse as normal in their childhood.

There are 100's of threads currently running on GN and anyone can say about any of them that they are made to feel they should go away if they don't tow the line.

"Follow the rules, call us perfect, innocent and blameless, or go away". I hope that wasn't specifically aimed at EP's Starblaze because let me tell you something, in case you haven't realised it despite all the old threads you've been reading.

EAC don't have the monopoly on pain, EP's and EGP's hurt too.

Obviously that works both ways, though.
People aren't going to agree with your assessment of their whole family dynamic and accept that you know better than them.
It's healthy debate (or should be)

You know, I wasn't totally honest about what I noticed about the old threads and it proved me wrong about something.

I said that EAC aren't welcome here, and that's wrong. It's anyone who doesn't tow a certain line.

Many times I read from estranged parents "In the nicest possible way, do you think that maybe what you said/did was a bit harsh and maybe that is something you could look into?“ and the reply was generally along the lines of "Wow! How could you be so mean to me!“ and those estranged parents went away.

I can't tell you how horrifically sad that is.

Maybe AEC are some sort of big bad, throwing our weight around, talking about what abuse is and exercising the ability we gained to defend ourselves when we grew these beautiful shiny spines going No Contact.

That's awful though.

"Follow the rules, call us perfect, innocent and blameless, or go away"

Lol no.

That has certainly been my experience Starblaze. Too many blanket statements; too many who think they know what they couldn't possibly know and too many false, therefore unsubstantiated allegations.

"Maybe we could just go with the old ass.u.me adage instead?" That's been happening for some time.

What rules would those be?
I'm not aware of any.

It's hard to talk around here sometimes when you don't know the rules and you didn't realise that there should be rules and the self appointed arbiter/s change them depending on some other rules that you also don't know. Then suddenly everything that matters about what you said has been disqualified because you just weren't careful enough to follow the rules people! and also you must be a terrible human being because of it.

Maybe we could just go with the old ass.u.me adage instead?

Mentally stable parents have mentally stable children I agree hugshelp that that suggests that an AC with mental health problems didn't have mentally stable parents, and as your post @ 14.18 demonstrates, that blanket statement isn't true.

How can anyone take my personal statement, that MY mental health impacts the mental health of my minor children, into -- "If a parent has mental health issues it must be because they got 'it' from their parent" or anything close to that?

Those concepts are light-years apart and not even the same conversation. Interesting leap in 'logic' on that one...