Is 'No Contact' abuse?

Our ES hasn't claimed he was abused User so we are certainly not dismissing his feelings.

Pantglas2

Well almost at the end of this strange thread - not sure what the point of it was?

Those who’ve been estranged will always feel abused and those who did the estranging resorting to describing abuse purely in legal terms where the bar is higher.

The phrase “encouraged thinking” is a new one on me but I can see that it’s a two way street not the clincher it’s made out to be!

As for “healing”… that definition is in the hands of the beneficiary not the estranger posing as a prescriber - the weird need for control is obvious even there!

Plenty of people who estrange also felt abused. Many times it's actually true, hence walking away. Factually speaking, you cannot actively be abused by someone who no longer has any contact with you. It's not really a matter of feelings.

I'm quite capable of looking beyond my own experience VS. It's some of those who have estranged who appear to be unable to do so, tarring all those who have been estranged with the same bush.

The thread is littered with posts that demonstrate this is the case. Telling those who have been estranged and say their experience is one of abuse that they are wrong, should re frame their experience and are watering down the term abuse are not being supported, and I'm amazed that anyone would claim that they are.

Is No Contact abuse? Yes, sometimes it is.

I love the irony of people claiming no contact is abuse but also dismissing when their adult child says they were abused. If your claims of abuse are valid because of how it makes you feel, I don't see how you can dismiss the feelings of your own children.

Hypocritical in the most transparent way.

I wouldn't worry about it Bridie. Unfortunately these unpleasant sweeping generalisations about EP's are to be expected on this forum but it's those who make them who have the issues, not those of us who are on the receiving end.

Feverjo, I really object to your comments that EPs are emotionally unsafe people incapable of rational thinking, just because some of us do not agree with your concept of abuse.

Substituting the word "anyone" in my comment for a different word is not ok

Smileless2012

Yes Bridie a lot of posters have healed in an environment that doesn't tell them how they should be expressing their personal experience.

When it comes to this particular thread VS I don't know how (EP's) can heal in this environment with some of the encouraged thinking dictating too encouraging EP's, to talk about their experience of estrangement in a way that is acceptable too those who have estranged.

I actually didn't mention EPs there Smileless

I generally never do and think in general terms...

I always hope that one day you will be able to look past your own experience and see how others trying to be helpful and supportive should have been treated better rather than labelled "against EPs" for not being one

Well almost at the end of this strange thread - not sure what the point of it was?

Those who’ve been estranged will always feel abused and those who did the estranging resorting to describing abuse purely in legal terms where the bar is higher.

The phrase “encouraged thinking” is a new one on me but I can see that it’s a two way street not the clincher it’s made out to be!

As for “healing”… that definition is in the hands of the beneficiary not the estranger posing as a prescriber - the weird need for control is obvious even there!

Smileless2012

Yes Bridie a lot of posters have healed in an environment that doesn't tell them how they should be expressing their personal experience.

When it comes to this particular thread VS I don't know how (EP's) can heal in this environment with some of the encouraged thinking dictating too encouraging EP's, to talk about their experience of estrangement in a way that is acceptable too those who have estranged.

I've also seen a lot of posters use name-calling regularly, some actually ranting the same angry things over and over nearly daily to describe their estranged sons and daughters in the environment you allude to. That doesn't strike me as healing at all. Quite the opposite. I think many take the approach of avoiding said environment for those reasons.

Bridie22

But a lot of posters have VS , with support from others in their position.

Abuse is a crime. Break-ups with parents don't constitute illegal activity.

Gransnet posters agreeing or supporting others about their feelings has no bearing on how the crime of abuse is defined. That's not a rational thought process when accusing people of illegal activity. Hence, such "support" for one's feeling would hold no legal weight with our justice system that handles the crime of abuse. Facts matter. Feelings and facts cannot be used interchangeably when accusing others of abuse.

Abuse is specifically illegal.

Walking away from a relationship from another adult isn't the illegal criminal activity of abuse.

If this is hard for anyone to understand, well I can understand how a relationship breakdown would be inevitable. It's not possible to negotiate healthy relationships when one party is irrational enough to accuse you of a crime simply because they feel a way about the level of contact they want with you.

Hyperbole to describes one's feelings and perceptions limits when one accuses another of specific illegal activity (abuse).

Yes Bridie a lot of posters have healed in an environment that doesn't tell them how they should be expressing their personal experience.

When it comes to this particular thread VS I don't know how (EP's) can heal in this environment with some of the encouraged thinking dictating too encouraging EP's, to talk about their experience of estrangement in a way that is acceptable too those who have estranged.

But a lot of posters have VS , with support from others in their position.

Smileless2012

It's telling EP's how they should experience their estrangement and dictating how we can and cannot express that experience Allsorts and Bridie.

That's not what is happening

I don't know how anyone can heal in this environment with some of the encouraged thinking

It's telling EP's how they should experience their estrangement and dictating how we can and cannot express that experience Allsorts and Bridie.

It's a lot of psychobabble Allsorts!!
Not pertinent to most of our estrangement experiences as parents, I think we are quite capable of discerning abuse when we experience it.

If others can make head or tail if this good luck.

Allsorts

The original post was started by person who did the estranging, of course they are bound to justify why they did this. The people on the receiving end don't feel as they do. Its a pointless discussion. It’s how that action makes you feel, like at school if someone was sent to Coventry, it was done to undermine a person, to exclude, make them feel not valued and friendless. How much better to say if you still disagree, say I have to distance for my own piece of mind and we can’t sort it out so I have no choice .

No, defining someone as an abuser is not merely a matter of how an action makes one feel. Abuse is a matter of fact, not simply a feeling. If I send a text and someone doesn't answer for a few days, my feelings would be hurt but it doesn't make that person an abuser. When you play fast and loose with serious issues like abuse, necessary lines get blurred. No one is arguing that being on the receiving end of their own relative going 'no contact' isn't hurtful. Of course it is! No one is saying a person who is estranged has no right to feel hurt. Of course they do! What they do not have a right to do is accuse someone of abuse who literally does not have any contact whatsoever with them. Distinctions are important.

DiamondLily

Feverjo

The perfect example of an emotionally unsafe person is one who thinks they are entitled to have a relationship with someone who does not want a relationship with them. The suggestion that a person is an abuser because they do not want contact with someone who makes them unhappy is ironically one that an actual abuser would make. It's pure coercive manipulation. Breaking away from someone who takes away from your happiness is not and never will be abuse. Abuse is criminal. Abuse is not a matter of perception. Abuse is not merely a feeling. Abuse is an act. Go walk into a police station and tell them you are actively being abused by someone you have no contact with. See how far that goes. This debate is absurd. Accusing someone of abuse that no longer has contact with you is a slanderous form of character assassination.

Really? Without explaining why? And yet, the silent treatment, within a relationship, or ghosting, is classed as abuse, and manipulative.

Abuse can be many things.🙄

As I said, abuse is a crime. 'No contact' is not a crime. It's not the "silent treatment". It's the full cessation of all contact. It's the absolute end of the relationship. It's a breakup. Walking away from a relationship doesn't make anyone a criminal, not even if they are your parent(s). Hurting someone's feelings is also not a crime, whether an explanation is provided or not. Abuse is always a crime. Why would anyone be trusted to maintain a healthy relationship if these basic distinctions can be distorted so badly?

Bridie22

Do you feel better for spouting that absolute load of rubbish Feverjo?
We need to agree to disagree!

You don't have to like the truth. It doesn't stop being just because it ruffles your feather. Abuse is a crime. Let anyone who feels abused by not having contact with someone who doesn't want a relationship with them report your version of "abuse" to the police. Let's see how that works out.

And of course, healing... We have to be able to heal, it can take a long time to be ready for that and understanding our own feelings and what actually happened is genuinely the only real way to do it...

We might think we need closure or explanations from the other party in order to do that but it is not the case.

Healing is understanding ourselves, what behaviours are right or wrong, where our responsibility is and isn't, what we could have done better and where we did our best...

To do that you need a clear understanding of what healthy looks like and that information is available in books, websites, therapists offices... It is where you are determined to look for it

I've always been, well very careful here to show how my mother's behaviour was abusive and I have had to justify that to people here many times... What kind of abuse it was and what that looked like, what the terms are that describe it... Then comes explaining how it made me feel

But when you are in that situation, most people go with their feelings at first and then work backwards from there, that is how you understand those feelings and what led to them. That's how I came to understand my experience was abuse... Which then enables me to discuss it here

I also agree with people here saying that you don't need a reason to leave any relationship. Most people don't leave supportive, loving relationships unless there is something going on with them, like they are being abused by a third party or suffering from some sort of mental health disorder or condition...

This is just the reality, one we have to live in and one that is hard to live in sometimes

We actually have a lot of training at school now for what does and does not constitute bullying

As much as someone might feel "bullied" it's actually important to unravel the situation rather than label someone else a bully

Life just isn't black and white or dictated by feelings

Allsorts

The original post was started by person who did the estranging, of course they are bound to justify why they did this. The people on the receiving end don't feel as they do. Its a pointless discussion. It’s how that action makes you feel, like at school if someone was sent to Coventry, it was done to undermine a person, to exclude, make them feel not valued and friendless. How much better to say if you still disagree, say I have to distance for my own piece of mind and we can’t sort it out so I have no choice .

I agree. But, as this thread is 4 years old, and it’s not clear why it’s been resurrected, I assume the OP has long gone, and did they wanted to, it’s irrelevant.🤷‍♀️

Feverjo

The perfect example of an emotionally unsafe person is one who thinks they are entitled to have a relationship with someone who does not want a relationship with them. The suggestion that a person is an abuser because they do not want contact with someone who makes them unhappy is ironically one that an actual abuser would make. It's pure coercive manipulation. Breaking away from someone who takes away from your happiness is not and never will be abuse. Abuse is criminal. Abuse is not a matter of perception. Abuse is not merely a feeling. Abuse is an act. Go walk into a police station and tell them you are actively being abused by someone you have no contact with. See how far that goes. This debate is absurd. Accusing someone of abuse that no longer has contact with you is a slanderous form of character assassination.

Really? Without explaining why? And yet, the silent treatment, within a relationship, or ghosting, is classed as abuse, and manipulative.

Abuse can be many things.🙄