Religion and Estrangement/No Contact.

Don’t think Yoda knew you were a Jedi, HolyHannah.

I agree Madgran one's perception of religion and how they respond to others can be a factor.

The middle D of some friends. over the last few years has instigated periods of reduced contact especially with her mother, as her parents are Catholic and in their D's eyes, she having joined a Pentecostal Church, they are not 'true believers.

It seems to me that all religions are paternalistic and not in a good way. I am sure that it can be deeply damaging to children, especially girls, to be brought up in a home where the parents espouse extreme and inflexible religious beliefs.

Petit Fromage I agree that children brought up in a home where parent's inflexible , rigid interpretations of religious beliefs/"laws" can be deeply damaged. I think it is as damaging for the boys though, in a different way, because of what they are potentially taught about men/women/relationships

There are many children who are disowned due to religion. I say disowned because it's the word I usually see used if they are driven off for their sexuality, choice of partner or lack of religious conviction. I still think that is a peculiar word choice. People don't own people.

'Honour' killings, FGM and forced arranged marriages are all terrible examples of extreme and inflexible religious beliefs.

All faiths and schools of thought were not created on a foundation of loving kindness- Each disguises inexcusable behavior with loving kindness- Completely defeating the purpose of each teaching-

The first place a child learns of their estrangement from love is from their family- The second place they learn it is at church -- or within their spiritual circles-

Religion was created by men, not the "lesser" of the sexes- So it only stands reason why both sexes continue to cling to it-

I still think that is a peculiar word choice. People don't own people.

Oxford Dictionary definition of the word is:

disown

"refuse to acknowledge or maintain any connection with."

Thinking about faith as opposed to religion specifically in relation to estrangement/no contact, I honestly don't know how we'd have coped with out our faith to sustain us through the darkest times.

Just had to point out that the 'old testament' is not a Christian Text. Christianity started with Jesus.

I was brought up as a regular church going presbyterian, even a Sunday School Teacher, but as I grew older and had children of my own I came to realise that it was full of inconsistencies, that as many really awful things happened to lovely Christian people and their innocent Children (no matter how hard we prayed for them) as happened to apparently Godless 'bad' people. Consequently, I stopped attending Church and instead volunteered for various charities and voluntary groups, which had a demonstrable positive impact on people's lives.

I do follow many Christian principals, eg try to be a good Samaritan, do unto others (often better!) than to myself, etc. but find the whole idea of spending your life "getting right with God" to be a waste of time and goodwill which could be more profitably spent giving practical support and comfort to others.

*Madgran, I'm talking about the words origin which is dis + own

Another definition is:

Refusing to acknowledge as belonging to you

Starblaze Ok

Madgran No worries

Smileless, I actually envy those who have a strong faith, it must be a great comfort.

There is no doubt that Jesus was a great leader, teacher, and a shining example of goodness. I think it is humans who corrupt the message and that men often interpret religion in such a way as to control women and their bodies, which is what puts me off organised religion, especially extremist groups.

In the same way, religion can also be used to try to control children, which I think is the point that the original poster was making. I am sure that this can have a fundamental (no pun intended) effect on the parent/child relationship and eventually drive the adult child away, as they seek to free their minds from all of the indoctrination and find themselves.

I agree totally with your post PF. It's like saying guns kill when of course it's the people who fire the guns that do the killing.

Our faith has been a great comfort. Helped us through the worse of times, that's for sure.

rosecarmel -- "All faiths and schools of thought were not created on a foundation of loving kindness- Each disguises inexcusable behavior with loving kindness- Completely defeating the purpose of each teaching-" -- That describes how I felt about religion as a child. These people called themselves 'Christians' but their behavior certainly didn't match the teachings -- total hypocrisy.

"The first place a child learns of their estrangement from love is from their family- The second place they learn it is at church -- or within their spiritual circles-" I never felt 'love' anywhere and then the 'teachings' were, if you're 'bad' (which everyone declared I was) you get to go to Hell!

Every day was "hell" and I got to "look forward" to more? It's not really a wonder I had no desire to live...

Thank you Chewbacca for giving Me Jedi 'tips'. Like I do not know My own faith or what it means to be Jedi.

Smileless -- Yoda is a fictional character and given the image you posted I have a theory on how it was meant... But... If I told the truth you'd run to 'the principal' and say, "Look how MEAN she is being to MEEE!!!!"

Do you know how many comments I have reported to GNHQ? ZERO. Why? I can stand by my words and I believe what other people say should stand as a testament (minus racily insensitive/homophobic/gender based slurs etc.) to how they think...

I also stand by any PM's I have sent to people. I speak the truth "in private" the same as I post. However, for those few who have received PM's from Me? They know a few things... If I say 'it', You are free to take what I say and use 'it' as You want. If they quote me from a PM and post 'it' publicly I'll own it. However, the usual reason I send PM's to people is because I WANT to say something but my language in those comments won't meet GN standards.

The problem not with religion. It is, however, with the people who practice it.

lucky, with reference to your comment about respect, does one respect the beliefs of others that one disagrees with or does one respect other people and their right to believe whatever they like? I think there's a massive difference between respecting a person and respecting a belief. There are lots of beliefs for which I have no respect at all but on principle I feel it's important to respect people of whatever creed or political outlook, whatever I may think of their beliefs.

What I can't understand is why anyone woukd even bother to engage with this.

Baggs, surely a person's beliefs are part of who they are. I am generally a 'live and let live' sort of person, but I cannot respect someone who holds religious or political views which are abhorrent to me. I agree with Hannah that this would include racism, homophobia and misogyny.

Many years ago, when I was at university, the debate was raging as to whether or not women should be ordained. A friend of mine felt called to the ministry, but was told by one of her fellow theology students 'Ordaining you would be like ordaining a potato'. If it weren't so appalling, it would actually be quite funny.

Then, having finally admitted women to the ministry - and I am confining my comments to the C of E, obviously - there had to be another debate as to whether or not women could become bishops. It's like saying you can join the company, but only if you take on a lowly role, you can never aspire to be in a managerial role. It was to take another 20 years for that to happen. Apparently it offended the consciences of the male members of clergy. And don't get me on to other religions!

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant for so early in the morning!

Are you saying there actually is a Jedi religion HolyHannah? I had no idea. I don't know what your theory regarding the picture of Yoda is; it was intended to be humorous as I took you statement in your OP, that you're a Jedi to be.

I don't know what the reporting and deletion of posts, or pm's have to do with this discussion, but as you've raised the subject, I'll respond.

On the whole I agree that it's better to leave the less savoury posts, as their content says all that needs to be said about the person who posted them. That said in addition to the ones you have mentioned, I would add posts that are clearly intended to upset and/or hurt another poster because of a personal dislike.

I'm sure the majority of GN's make use of pm's, to say things they would feel uncomfortable putting on the forum because they are particularly personal. I occasionally get pm's from a GN who, because of the battering she received on one of the threads she initially posted on, no longer feels comfortable posting on the forum.

Why would anyone want to quote from someone else's pm; they're private?

The ordination of women into the C of E is a great example of misogyny PF within organised religion. I don't know of course and it's only my opinion but I don't think it was the "consciences of the male members of clergy* that were offended, but their 'masculinity'.

Thankfully we have women vicars and Bishops and gay clergy so good sense prevailed in the end.

Granny23 I agree it is not a Christian text, coming from the Old Testament. I was raised a Christian and still believe but not in the C of E anymore. I went to a Congregational Chapel as a child and the difference in attitude was colossal.

The C of E refused to christen my son unless my husband a non-believer went to christening classes. In my old neighbourhood when I went to church a lady would shake my hand but if I saw her in the street would ignore me - the hypocrisy of it. Jesus can teach us many things about love for all our fellow men and women. The organised church from the start has corrupted his teachings.

//Just had to point out that the 'old testament' is not a Christian Text. Christianity started with Jesus.//

Granny23, Jesus specifically endorsed the Old Testament when he said “‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly I tell you,until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭NIV.)

‘The Law and the Prophets’ was an expression meaning what we call the OT.
www.learnthebible.org/law-and-the-prophets.html

Another New Testament passage says, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬). ‘Scripture’ at that point meant the OT.

The OT is the story of how God prepared a nation for the coming of the Messiah, Jesus, so that people would understand and spread his message of how to be right with God. It is full of prophecies about him, even to the time of his coming, fulfilled hundreds of years later. Have a look at Isaiah chapter 53.

It also contains accounts of his pre-incarnate appearances (appearances before he became a man).
youtu.be/sEkm5QGZoWw

As for bad things happening to good people: the Bible doesn’t teach that following Jesus guarantees you a happy life. in fact, Jesus said, “In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” (John‬ ‭16:33‬ ‭NIV.) If prayer worked like a slot machine - put in the prayer and get what you want out - people would follow Jesus for what they could get, not out of love and gratitude. God wants a loving, trusting relationship with each individual, not people who say ‘Lord, Lord’, but their hearts are far from him.

For that, we have to be able to trust him when we don’t understand why he does things. (Why should we? He knows everything and we don’t.)

However, there have been many miracles in response to prayer. I have personally received healing after prayer and I know others who have. There is a very readable book called ‘Miracles’ by Eric Metaxas (4.5 stars on Amazon with 496 reviews), if anyone is interested in examples.
www.amazon.co.uk/Miracles-What-They-Happen-Change-ebook/dp/B00MNGZY6E?tag=gransnetforum-21

Sparkling

What I can't understand is why anyone woukd even bother to engage with this.

And yet again, you enter the discussion .. ?