Toad - but what if someone doesn't believe, or is raised as a Jew, Buddhist or Muslim? Aren't these people to be 'saved' because of an accident of birth, or is there more than one path to salvation?
Is it possible to remove a topic from "I'm on"
Gransnet forums
Estrangement
Religion and Estrangement/No Contact.
(220 Posts)I've often wondered how much religion plays a part in estrangement.
I was 'raised' Christian and hated IT. The hypocrisy that I saw in that community was appalling to Me even as a minor child... Add the double-standards of my home environment, all these "rules"/ideals existed in principle but the only one following them/MADE to follow them and faced consequences for NOT following those "rules" was ME. Oh and a few 'fellow goats'... A group/community/'family' doesn't need many from my experience and reality -- just enough to make others' "fall into line" lest they become a 'goat' as well.
Here's a list, compiled by an EP of Biblical quotes:
Proverbs 1:8 My child, listen when your father corrects you. Don’t neglect your mother’s instruction.
Proverbs 6:20 My son, obey your father’s commands, and don’t neglect your mother’s instruction.
Proverbs 10:1 The proverbs of Solomon: A wise child brings joy to a father; a foolish child brings grief to a mother.
Proverbs 15:20 Sensible children bring joy to their father; foolish children despise their mother.
Proverbs 19:26 Children who mistreat their father or chase away their mother are an embarrassment and a public disgrace.
Proverbs 20:20 If you insult your father or mother, your light will be snuffed out in total darkness.
Proverbs 23:22 Listen to your father, who gave you life, and don’t despise your mother when she is old.
Proverbs 23:25 So give your father and mother joy! May she who gave you birth be happy.
Proverbs 28:24 Anyone who steals from his father and mother and says, “What’s wrong with that?” is no better than a murderer.
Proverbs 30:11 Some people curse their father and do not thank their mother.
Proverbs 30:17 The eye that mocks a father and despises a mother’s instructions will be plucked out by ravens of the valley and eaten by vultures.
And this is why I'm a Jedi.
Holy Hannah, I have no opinion about you apart from what you write on Gransnet.
Do you know what it means to try to be objective?
Rosecarmel
In that regard, is practicing Christianity that hard? A born again Christian is a new creation. It is something you are, not something you have to ‘practise’.
That it's so incredibly difficult to do alone? you are born again into the presence of God so you are never alone.
Perhaps even hypocritical? Christian churches often are hypocritical as I said twice before ... corrupt... but the individual Christian who focuses on Jesus only... isn’t.
Are you two ladies in USA by any chance, or somewhere else in the world? Just looking at the times of your postings.
pf, hope you don’t mind me abbreviating you’re name! Jesus says we have to be born again, ( so starting again with Him as your leader), to be saved. No one is born a Christian.
Lots of different views over what happens to non Christians, Christians themselves often can’t agree, but they do agree that the Bible is clear they won’t be with God.
If you’re asking what happens if you’ve never had the chance to hear about Jesus, and therefore, don’t know what to do, we do know we’re all judged after death, Christians as well, by a loving God. There is only one path to salvation, and that is through Jesus. Once you hear the Gospel, you’re then obliged to make the choice.
Toadinthehole -- "If you find peace in religion, it will be short lived and lead no where." -- I don't even know what you mean by that. Is your religion so fraught with conflict that there is no peace in it? Or are you implying that those of other faiths are doomed to not have peace in their life?
"Once you hear the Gospel, you’re then obliged to make the choice." -- Says who?
And I'm not American -- not that I see any relevance to the conversation.
Alexa -- I find people who ask questions like that are usually projecting...
Holy Hannah, my intention in asking that question was to discover if you could take an objective point of view, which interests me a little more than anecdotes.
Your experiences among religious people could be interesting.
Alexa -- The way I practice Jedi is to always be objective. That doesn't mean I'm likely to change my mind/philosophy but I always listen.
To not be objective is to make a judgement(s) on something/someone based on a perception of that and immediately discounting the message based on it.
Like, "Hannah identifies as Jedi so therefore she is a 'loon' and anything she says is 'nothing'..."
That is a mentality I am familiar with... Although when I was a child my 'mom' would just insert something else in place of 'Jedi'. I was "stupid" or "immature" or whatever other excuse to dismiss my reality...
Hannah. I think I’ve said all I can, anything else would just be repetition. I wish you all the best.
Toadinthehole
Rosecarmel
In that regard, is practicing Christianity that hard? A born again Christian is a new creation. It is something you are, not something you have to ‘practise’.
That it's so incredibly difficult to do alone? you are born again into the presence of God so you are never alone.
Perhaps even hypocritical? Christian churches often are hypocritical as I said twice before ... corrupt... but the individual Christian who focuses on Jesus only... isn’t.
Are you two ladies in USA by any chance, or somewhere else in the world? Just looking at the times of your postings.
Born Again Christians practice Christianity-
Being born into the presence of God is not without conflict, such as experiencing isolation, loneliness and a sense of being alone, impatience to return to church, be with their congregation, sing in the choir, attend service- They're human-
Why isn't the individual who focuses on Jesus not hypocritical ? Does such an individual not affiliate with any particular congregation?
rosecarmel -- To be Jedi is to understand that We are all bound to this one universe. As in ALL things/people. It's very peaceful.
HolyHannah, I appreciate the Jedi faith-
I believe in change, it isn't a religion, but couldn't adopt being bound to all that could be seen now, as in a universe that is statically singular-
rosecarmel -- When I use the term "bound to this one universe" I mean it on a cosmic scale... The Universe and everything in it is tied/bound to every other 'thing' as well... The Universe is infinitely large and expanding...
Similar to the "Butterfly Effect" only on a grander and multi-dimensional existence.
Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Humans have an 'energy'/spirit/essence (whatever you want to call 'it') so when We die, that energy goes "somewhere" -- back to the Universe perhaps? I don't know... Does anyone?
HolyHannah, yes- Everything appears to be interconnected and the process of it is in constant flux of what's connected to what, each thing dependent upon another thing- And I think the pandemic has presented examples of the above many times over-
I don't know where consciousness goes when living things expire- I do know that people meditate on thoughts of death to bring their minds back to this moment to practice gratitude for having been given life-
Toadinthehole you posted yesterday "If you find peace in religion it will be short lived and lead no where".
My personal experience is the exact opposite. The peace we have found has been ongoing and led us to a place of peace we'd never have thought possible due to our estrangement.
Smileless. As I’ve understood from all your posts I’ve seen... you have a strong faith in Jesus, so I would expect you to have found peace. You are a Christian. I’m saying Christianity and religion are not the same thing. One follows Jesus and the other any number of entities. This includes many of our churches, which have been corrupted by men. My apologies if I have this wrong.
No need to apologise Toadinthehole I think I misconstrued your post so I apologise.
You're absolutely right; Christianity and religion are not the same thing.
A baby in the womb thinks that this is life and will remain so. Imagine the shock, awe, enchantment to discover the world after birth.
That is what I believe happens to us when we die, we throw off this world and enter into a spiritual realm - all we take with us is our mind. But in my belief the spiritual world is the real world and it is all around us, we just need to be open to it when we die and there we will be for eternity. The role of religion is this: obviously in this spiritual world we will have no bodies, so physical and materialistic pursuits will not exist. ie no sex, food, tv. etc. They have their role, but If that is what makes your life and fills your mind, you will be in for a lonely ‘non’existence when you die. If your mind is opened up to love and ‘goodness’ however, not only will your life enhance this world, you will continue to have a fulfilling useful life in the next - because we can continue to contribute to the spiritual world in a meaningful way. And it will not be just Christians who are there.
Think this sounds far out? Read this:
www.worldsciencefestival.com/videos/a-thin-sheet-of-reality-the-universe-as-a-hologram/
Matt 10:35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
When I joined my religion, my family turned against me.
all we take with us is our mind
I have no shred of doubt about where the human mind resides - it is in that mass of grey porridge in our skulls - in our brain. I am certain of this as I worked for many years with people who had suffered a brain injury and so many things about them changed: their personalities, their outlook, their moral compass, their ability to control their temper, their emotions etc. etc.
Therefore you do not take your mind anywhere when you die - it decays in the ground or is cremated along with the rest of your body, of which your brain/mind is just one part.
I know how hard it is to regard our minds as coming to a close; but the same happens with all animals of every kind. Whatever mind they might have is gone with the rest of their bodies when they die. We are simply animals higher up the food chain.
So - what ever beliefs we might have about an afterlife, it most certainly does not include our mind.
I am an agnostic - a Don't Know - and I believe we are all in that same boat. Some have "faith|" in one religion or another, but faith and knowledge are two different things.
I do have a creed by which I try to live and that is kindness - sometimes I am good at it, and sometimes I fail. It is the heart of all religions (ignore the Old Testament - it has been superseded!) and it seems to me that if we lock onto that heart and ignore the man-made accretions and aberrations that adhere to so many religions we cannot go far wrong.
Religion as we know it is divisive. Best avoided I feel.
HolyHannah wrote:
"When I use the term "bound to this one universe" I mean it on a cosmic scale... The Universe and everything in it is tied/bound to every other 'thing' as well... The Universe is infinitely large and expanding...
Similar to the "Butterfly Effect" only on a grander and multi-dimensional existence."
I too believe that. I don't belong to any religious institution.
Alexa -- On this we agree. I do not belong to "any religious institution". That's why Jedi are just that... It's who you are not just a "part" of your identity...
Being a Christian is who you are and not just a part of your identity and no doubt it's that way for anyone whose faith, their religion is of the utmost importance to them.
Luckygirl. I am using my ipad to send this message, it is the means if communicating my thoughts to you. If I get a virus or some other technical problem with my i pad or the Internet goes down, my message may get jumbled up or you may not receive it at all, but that doesn’t change the fact that I sent a very clear message.
An imperfect analogy but hopefully you get my point. The mind may also be called the soul by some people.
Luckygirl and the other unbelievers, I actually think it would be a lot easier to not believe in eternal life. It would be a relief to think that death is the end - no more effort or worries. . But believing in kindness is another form of ‘goodness’ a word derived from God like whether you believe in God or not, so you may be surprised when the time comes, to find that the thinking part of you is still alive after all!
So mind/soul/consciousness remains after the flesh is flesh no more?
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