Daughter’s birthday, should I send her a birthday card ?

HolyHannah Where is your evidence? I would like to be open minded and read more.
You say there is no power play. To hold back grandchildren from a parent because YOU have an issue with that parent is cruel . Again we are not talking abuse here. I’m talking about little trivial problems or perceptions. Why can’t those be talked about and resolved?

Thank you Sparkling it was a big thing for our ES to contact me and despite not knowing how I feel about that, I didn't want to simply ignore him.

Even at the time of sending a card, gift or message if the sender doesn't expect to receive a response, I'm sure the hope that they will is there.

I know how we felt when messages and/or emails were ignored and the only thing I was sure of when I got his message was that I couldn't do that to him.

Smileless, So sorry to hear about the death of your mother, not knowing she had been admitted to hospital, all such a shock.. I think you did the right thing responding to your son, from what you have said about him, that was a big thing for him to do. Your emotions must be in turmoil, take care of yourself, thoughts are with you.?

Rhinestone -- "Having been on these forums for along time I guess most of the people on here were the ones estranged by others not the ones who estrange. So I’m not sure for the reasons some want to be on here if they do the estranging."

I agree with Starblaze. What is the objection? Estranged is estranged. Unless of course the implication is that those who have been cut-off/NC'd are all 'good' and EAC are wrong/'bad' in their actions...

Other people have said out-right that they don't want to hear from Starblaze and that was/is okay? Well, maybe EAC get tired of hearing certain things that EP's try to sell as truth/reality.

My opinion (backed up with evidence) shows reality is more round then flat. Talk to EAC, you know, the people who share the same position as an EP's 'child'... If someone can't listen to/accept an internet stranger when they say, "This might be your issue with your AC..." and would rather hear, "I know you were a 'good' mom. I know you did your 'best'. Our children are just ungrateful and immature..." then how can I believe an EP when they say, "I would so be willing to sit down and talk this all out.".

Talking to your own EAC should have a far more emotional reaction then to people here. If an EP can't handle observations about problematic thinking patterns, when/if their AC is willing to 'talk' is the parent going to be more or less receptive then here? I find it unlikely the answer would be more.

If a parent can't handle, "This attitude would make Me not want to be around you..." or some other such 'criticism' then how is their own AC going to be received when they say, "I know You don't get how toxic you are. I'm sick of your constant negativity, victim blaming and shaming ME and then you go all pathetic 'victim' when called on your BS."

I could give you the run-down of the reactions (it goes one of two ways) but let's all be honest; No one wants to hear 'it'. And of course that's also part of why the No Contact that dysfunctional thinkers don't grasp...

People who go No Contact aren't looking to 'win'/be 'in control'... People who go NC are tried of always 'losing'/never being heard even when they are talking. That's another part of why No Contact. No one (the 'parent') is listening anyways... It's less work for Us to stop talking/wasting our time/breath.

Bibbity -- Some people flatly refuse to accept that they have no rights where grand-children are concerned. Those people also tend to firmly believe that 'minor disagreements' lead to estrangement and that any EAC who goes No Contact (especially if they have children) are by default, abusers, whether that be aimed at our own children, our parents or both.

Also the belief that No Contact is a cult etc. and that people do so for 'no good reason' is only ever said by those who are most likely estranged themselves and for very 'good' reasons. The issue is, the 'parents' fail to see/accept that their adult child almost always have very good reasons and the fact they don't agree with those reasons doesn't make them minor/bad reasons in the eyes of their AC.

And lastly, that overall general attitude is also part of why they are likely estranged. Adult children get tired of being 'wrong' in the eyes of our 'family' all the time.

My family does not need the constant negativity of my FOO. I have healthy relationships now. As you said, Our children are not missing out on anything.

I don’t want my MIL around my children. As their mother it is my responsibility to make decisions in their best interest.
The fact she is genetically linked doesn’t automatically make any relationship between them good.

My children are adored by Grandparents, great grandparents, uncles, aunties, great uncles and Aunties and more cousins then you could count.
They have a very very close family. They aren’t missing anything.

Rhinestone I'm a member of gransnet as an older woman and I am estranged. Where would you like me to talk?

I've read all the threads under the estrangement forum topic and estranged children have always been here.

I'm afraid the children are the responsibility of the parents while they are children and there is nothing I personally can do about people's parental choices.

My AC want nothing to do with my mum, that is their decision. She wasn't a good grandmother or particularly involved in their lives anyway.

Starblaze Having been on these forums for along time I guess most of the people on here were the ones estranged by others not the ones who estrange.
So I’m not sure for the reasons some want to be on here if they do the estranging.

I don’t agree that if you have a disagreement with a parent then they can’t see their grandchildren. To me that is punishing innocent children because of the parents problems.
I still don’t understand why some of these problems can’t be talked over when there are hurt feelings. I don’t see how non communication can help.

I estranged for the same reasons Bibbity and I've never had a moment's regret about that

That is good to hear Chewbacca

Never said you did bibbity! If you go back and read my post, you'll see where I quoted your post.

yes i would send her one.find one that says say you still her love her through bad times and good .. . ..at least you know you tried ...

Chewbacca

Just to double check I know that you said And again. It wasn’t just not making us happy. I can do that on my own. She made us miserable. Which is what I quoted you on, right?

So it's rather disingenuous to say what do you specifically know about someone else's experience to know you wouldn't estrange if you were them? Where are the comparisons you are making?

That bit I said. I didn’t say the above.

Bibbity sorry about that, I do my best to always be reasonable but sometimes... Emotions happen

Just to double check I know that you said And again. It wasn’t just not making us happy. I can do that on my own. She made us miserable. Which is what I quoted you on, right?

Just to double check...you know I didn’t say that right?

Bibbity

And again. It wasn’t just not making us happy. I can do that on my own.
She made us miserable.

I estranged for the same reasons Bibbity and I've never had a moment's regret about that. I don't expect my reasons for taking that decision to be the same as anyone else's or need anyone else to approve or validate my reasons for doing so, nor to constantly revisit it to evaluate the why's and wherefores of it. It's done. Move on. But at the same time, I can understand and empathise with those who have been estranged from a loved one and genuinely don't understand why. So it's rather disingenuous to say what do you specifically know about someone else's experience to know you wouldn't estrange if you were them? Where are the comparisons you are making? when actually, none of us know the whole story; we only know what we're being told here. And that could be millions of miles away from "the truth" for any/all of us.

Dibbydod it is evident your DD has not suffered the trauma of all-consuming grief and until she does will never understand what it does to you. I also suspect an element of resentment in her which your love for your partner and distress at his death emphasized. Most parents do not expect gushing overtures from their children but unkindness at such a time exceedingly cruel.

As many here advocate, I would indeed send her a simple birthday card with love and expect nothing in return. Do this for your own sake because otherwise you sink to her level and something I would refuse to do. How she behaviours and her self-justification for it up to her.

And again. It wasn’t just not making us happy. I can do that on my own.
She made us miserable.

Yes. I will ‘withhold’ my children. Because if there is no relationship with the adults. There’s no relationship between the minor children.
I don’t care about ups and downs. She made me miserable. My husband and then our marriage suffered.

I don’t care about what others would or wouldn’t do. I’m now at a point where I no longer care about other options on the situation.
I’m at peace with it all. That chapter has closed.
There was an issue and it’s now been resolved.
The resolution was ending the relationship.
The CO was the solution.

What does that mean*Rhinestone*?

Why do you think i am here and have been for a long time?

Starblaze You have misread what I have been writing.. In my opinion people shouldn’t estrange for reasons like others not making them happy and I would not do it.
This forum is to give our opinions and support. Are you sure you are here for those reasons?

Rhinestone isn't suggesting that she knows "specifically about someone else's experience", we can only make decisions on the basis of our own experience, and we only ever know about someone else's based on what they tell us.

Rhinestone what do you specifically know about someone else's experience to know you wouldn't estrange if you were them? Where are the comparisons you are making?

Bibbity I didn’t realize I was talking about marriage. You didn’t mention it specifically.
So I guess you didn’t have to say it was a ridiculous comparison because I was talking about being estranged from children.
Everyone has faults . Everyone is not perfect. And not everyone makes me happy . But I have to make my own happiness and would never estrange myself because my parent didn’t make me happy all the time. I accept my family with all their quirks and idiosyncrasies even if at times I am not thrilled with them. That’s just me.

If a child and a parent have issues, and I’m not talking about abuse, but differences in expectations let’s say. Should that child withhold his or her children from seeing their Grandparents?