Overcomplicated

Bridie -- I think I will stick with the long term medical advice/therapy I have gone through with experts.

You are free to believe whatever you want of my situation. It's called invalidation. You are not the first to try to invalidate me, my diagnosis etc.

If it makes you feel better to think that my Doctor is wrong, okay...

My mum will never be a unicorn

What does that mean?

It has a happy ending Bridie

Starblaze.
I'm sorry to hear that, sad situation.

I am an absolute expert on my mums behaviour. I had half a lifetime of experience. I have spent a great deal of time educating myself and understanding it, I have been to see professionals and have listened to professional advice. I've become a master at managing anxiety and not letting it slow me down and a talking myself out of depression is now a super power

If anyone wants to tell me I cannot be the victim of a narcissist.

I'd say you are right. I stopped being a victim of a narcissist years ago and I never will be again.

Not that it matters, I can call her a narcissist or the wicked witch of the west or that mad bitch from hell... The only person I would be insulting is her and she deserves it.

My mum will never be a unicorn, no matter how much I want her to be. Time has run out. Its too late for her to ever come to any kind of realisation before one of us dies.

I accept that now.

A head doctor does need to diagnose your parent if you are saying the information you give is because of a true medical condition,
Else you are the victim of abuse of a suspected person with a disorder.

Thanks for your reply HolyHannah. I suppose I'm just curious that, as is currently being discussed on another thread, a person who is narcissistic is normally seen and diagnosed by a qualified mental health professional, after many months of interviews and tests; it's not a diagnosis that's given lightly; and certainly not "3rd hand" via someone else. And that got me wondering why labels are given to people, who haven't actually ever been met in person?

But I'm derailing FriendlyGhost's thread as this wasn't supposed to be about unofficial psychological labelling! Apologies FriendlyGhost.

Bridie -- If that belief makes you feel better... Okay.

A doctor doesn't need to be a gun expert to know when a victim has been shot...

A 'head doctor' doesn't need to meet "the gun" (my 'mom') to see/diagnose the damage she produced.

In my case "assessments" of others were made based on my symptoms and description of family dynamics and individual members-

The assessments were outlined so that I could learn to recognize "behavioral markers" and navigate them or avoid them altogether going forward-

FriendlyGhost, with the exception of my late mother, I can honestly say that I've never, ever had a bully in my life. I wouldn't allow it. A bully needs a victim - and I wouldn't be one.

HolyHannah
Unless your parent was professionally diagnosed you cannot be the victim of narcissistic abuse.

Chewbacca -- In my case, it is quite simple... Since all the symptoms I have can be linked to Narcissistic abuse and through thorough therapy, it became very clear where the damage came from.

Narcissistic abuse has very predictable results on child victims which can be diagnosed, as it was in my case.

Those posters who have said that their mothers/families are narcissistic; were any of them actually seen by a mental healthcare professional and diagnosed as such? I appreciate that some here have received professional advice and support for their own difficulties that they feel have been triggered by their pasts, but how can a diagnosis of any psychological abnormality be given by any professional, for people that they've never met or spoken to?

rosecarmel

Comfort, empathy and support continue to be offerd along with a variety of resources and personal growth experiences to glean insight from-

The greatest problem might be simply not recognizing that all the information being shared is dependent upon compassion- Not liking the way the information is presented or the individual presenting it doesn't cancel out the fact that the information being shared is an act of compassion-

❤️

Thank you MamaBear. What would have been worse is never coming to recognize what I grew up with and continued the cycle.

Comfort, empathy and support continue to be offerd along with a variety of resources and personal growth experiences to glean insight from-

The greatest problem might be simply not recognizing that all the information being shared is dependent upon compassion- Not liking the way the information is presented or the individual presenting it doesn't cancel out the fact that the information being shared is an act of compassion-

I too have been told by a professional that my symptoms are those of someone abused by a narcissist. If already estranged at that point. Before estranging a different professional said my family were toxic, not me which I had come to believe because for me there was no other logical reason why a mother wouldn't love her child.

I now see the much bigger, sadder picture for me and many others

HolyHannah I can’t imagine how difficult and hurtful your childhood must have been being raised by a narcissistic mother. I’m so sorry you didn’t get the parents you deserved. It’s common for other members of a family to develop narcissistic traits without being full blown narcissists. I’ve seen it called “narcissistic fleas”.

You were responsible for your H's eyes being opened MamaBear. I firmly believe we were estranged before we were able to open our son's eyes to the true nature of the woman he married and with whom he had children.

MamaBear -- My MiL blames Me even though He was No Contact with her before We met. LOL Match that logic!

A diagnosis for narcissistic personality disorder is made by a mental health professional comparing your symptoms and life history with those listed here. They will make a determination whether your symptoms meet the criteria necessary for a personality disorder diagnosis

Chewbacca There are plenty of people I don’t like much or don’t get on well with who I wouldn’t call narcissists. That doesn’t mean narcissists don’t exist. In my case of estrangement, my MIL is most definitely a Narcissist. Of course that doesn’t mean that all EP are.

Smileless I agree that a third party can have influence and cause an estrangement. Not saying this is the case for other people, but for me, my husband was unaware of how abusive his mother was until he saw her turn her abuse on me. I took it for a lot of years because “family”, but I eventually hit my breaking point and cut contact. MY husband was blissfully unaware that MILs behavior was abusive until he married me, and if he hadn’t married me and seen it he never would have estranged from his parents. From MILs perspective, the estrangement is my fault. From my perspective, she caused the estrangement with the way she treated me. Either way, I suppose a third party (me) caused the estrangement.

MamaBear -- I guess you could say my 'mom' was diagnosed in absentia due to my diagnosis of C-PTSD due to Narcissistic Child Abuse... And I agree. It's not nearly as uncommon as some think. I'm not sure how many people in my family would be considered full blown NPD but more then just my 'mom' because the number of other 'family' members who display Narcissistic traits is also alarming.

I agree that "if both sides are emotionally healthy and respectful, there would be no need to be here" but sadly when it comes to estrangement that is rarely, if ever the case MamaBear, hence the estrangement.

I also agree that it is often a last resort but it very much depends on why it's a last resort. For example the AC of an abusive parent estranges as a last resort to be free of their abuser.

An AC who marries or establishes a relationship with someone who is emotionally abusive, controlling and manipulative may see estranging their parents as a last resort to maintain their adult relationship, especially when they have children of their own, and want to keep their family unit in tact for the sake of their children.

It can also be the case that because of the subtle control and manipulation they've been subjected too over a period of time, they are blind to the extent they've been manipulated 'believing' that the estrangement of their parents is justifiable.

Although it is all too often disregarded, especially here on GN I've found, the importance of a third party's influence should never be underestimated.

There are numerous examples of how a parent's relationship with their AC is undermined by that AC's partner. There are currently examples being discussed here on other threads where this is the case.

If it's possible for the mutual love between an AC and his/her parents to be undermined by a third party which it is, it is small by comparison to accept that the mutual respect they once shared can be undermined too.

Thank you smileless I shall have a look at the thread.