Overcomplicated

Yes Smileless it was a very uncomfortable work situation. I believe the way I confronted her allowed her to not get defensive and admit to the BPD, which she told me took many years of therapy to help her manage. I asked her if I had done something to offend her. She find me what I did. I listened, and we talked. After that she treated me like a good friend. It was very eye opening to the way people with disordered personalities perceive offenses.

Also, I think for most people (if not all) estrangement is a last resort, especially between adult children and their parents. I don’t know anyone who would estrange from their parents or their children when there is mutual respect. If both sides are emotionally healthy and respectful, there would be no need to be here, would there?

When did "people we don't much like" and "people we don't really get on with" become "those people are narcissists"? I don't think I've ever met a narcissist. I've come across a lot of people who are self centred, selfish, childish and just plain manipulative. But I've never considered myself sufficiently qualified to bestow a diagnosis of a clinical psychological disorder on them. Can I ask all you Clinical Psychologists where you studied and obtained your emeritus qualifications from?

Yes it's a shame, I remember when the estrangement threads were like that too Bridie.

I don't know if you've seen the thread 'Support for all living with estrangement', it's just as you remember with empathy and support for anyone who is hurt and confused regardless of their personal circumstances.

When these estrangement threads first started they were a safe and comfortable place for people who were estranged from loved ones.
And regardless of the wrongs and rights of each individual case people were given empathy and support just because they were hurting and confused.
Sadly this is no longer the case, it has just turned into a point scoring exercise.

Good point MissA.

In my experience narcissists are easier to spot with the benefit of hindsight, when it's often too late to do anything about the damage they can cause, because they've already done it.

I agree with you Bridie and as there aren't nearly as many regular posters of the estrangement threads are there on some of the others on GN, the percentages don't make sense.

I think the constant references to narcissism are miss leading unless of course there's a desire to try and portray the majority of EP's as having a narcissistic personality which doesn't stack up, especially when you look at the stories from EP's who post here.

That must have been an extremely unpleasant experience MamaBear and you did well to confront her. I wonder though, if her apology and declaring her BPD were an indication that she wasn't a narcissist as if she were, it would have been very unusual for her admit too and accept fault.

I don't necessarily agree that "people who are able to work out their problems in a healthy way don't often turn to these kinds of forums for help". It isn't possible to sort out estrangement unless those concerned wish to do so, so for many the option to find a healthy solution to that particular problem, simply doesn't exist.

Narcissism really is not uncommon. I know of three people in my life who are Narcissists. It’s difficult to diagnose, but one was diagnosed by their therapist, and the other two were diagnosed based on what family members reported to their own therapist. Narcissists are hard to spot if your not in their inner circle.

I know that some of you are interested in the universe, well a new 3d map was just released of the universe and it's beautiful ..

m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=KJJXbcf8kxA&feature=emb_title

1% of the worlds population is about 78 million people.

That's the thing.
Imagining isn't the same as fact, and it's fact that a lay person isn't qualified to diagnose anyone else, particularly people they've never met or had dealings with.

How can it apply, I don't think 50/75% of gransnet members alone are males, and I disagree, sometimes life is unkind and people sometimes find it difficult to make sense of some situations, and it can help to have some input from people in similar situations, e.g think AA support groups, slimming world etc.

Bridie I imagine it applies to many of the people on these forums. With narcissists, or other disordered personalities, it’s often impossible to have a conversation about grievances without them ramping up their abuse, which often leads to estrangement. People who are able to work out their problems in a healthy way don’t often turn to these kinds of forums for help.

Mamabear 20
Thank you.
Research 27 Jan 2020
Only 0.5% to 1% of the population have true narcissistic personality disorder, or 1 in every 200 people, and 50 % to 75% are male.
I don't know how many regular male/female posters are on the estrangement thread, but looking at the info I can't see how this information we are constantly given from other posters applies to many on these threads.

Yes Smileless the silent treatment is terrible and is unfortunately used in many different relationships. I once had a coworker who gave me the silent treatment, which went on for many months. It made for a very uncomfortable and hostile work environment. This coworker wouldn’t look at me, speak to me, and I gnoses me when I spoke to her. I finally decided to confront her privately. She admitted that she was indeed giving me the silent treatment. I had offended her when I took a job assignment that really had nothing to do with her, but that she saw as a slight. She then apologized and admitted to having Borderline Personality Disorder. People with BPD are Narcissists, and the silent treatment is a preferred weapon. After this happened, I was able to recognize the silent treatment quickly for what it was when my MIL began using it against me and my husband.

Bridie22

We certainly do !

True-

Many children languish in the the illusion that they are to blame for their parents mistakes- They often make that mistake-

When they realize blaming themselves for their parents mistakes is a mistake they're emancipated-

If and when they have children, they will make mistakes as parents, responsible parents that hold themselves accountable for their parental mistakes-

MamaBear20 -- "I still don’t agree that a two year old article regarding narcissistic abuse is outdated."

I agree.

Bridie I also want to apologize for your name being autocorrected by my phone. I was certainly not changing it on purpose and was not trying to be passive aggressive or rude.

I still don’t agree that a two year old article regarding narcissistic abuse is outdated.

We certainly do !

Bridie22

Rosecarmel.
That works on both sides of the estranged relationship.

All relationships, Bridie- We all make mistakes-

Rosecarmel.
That works on both sides of the estranged relationship.

Smileless2012

You don't have to have been a perfect parent to have done nothing to deserve being estranged. I don't recall ever seeing a P, estranged or otherwise claiming to have been perfect.

For me it's unrealistic to assume that all EAC had good reasons for estranging their parents especially when there plenty of examples to show that that isn't the case.

"You don't have to be a perfect parent to have done nothing to deserve being estranged"

No, a person doesn't have to be a perfect parent- The idea that a perfect parent is real is delusional/just an illusion-

Equally delusional/just an illusion is holding on to the notion "have done nothing wrong"-

Figuring out what was done may not be easy- Nor is accepting the fact that an exact answer may never be arrived at-

"have done nothing wrong" is habit behavior- Similar to any habit used to provide some measure of comfort to numb pain-

Where as accepting that something was done, or something had been neglected to be done, is liberating-

Where there's relationships, there are mistakes being made-

No problem, thank you.

Bridie I'm so sorry I had your name wrong. It was a genuine mistake. I am having a break from my glasses. They are new and they are digging in behind my ears.

Silent treatment is awful isn't it MamaBear and I agree is emotional abuse, used by parents and AC to punish or push to get their own way.

I don't intend googling for them, I'm only awaiting verification from HolyHannah who posts the information.