Overcomplicated

Lolo it looks like mods agree with you as they removed Birdie’s comment.

Birdie Is it possible that HolyHannah struck a nerve with her comments, which is why you lashed out?

Friendlyghost

Do you want to adopt me?

I wish my parents were able to follow your path and have your introspection skills.

Congratulations on your amazing achievement and your daughter is lucky to have you

Bridie22, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Not necessarily on the content that Hannah posts which are from her own life experiences, but about the condescending way in which you chose to engage her. Just because the content of a message is truthful does not mean the delivery isn’t intended to be hurtful.

MissAdventure - I was actually in my own (also long winded) way trying to agree with most of your point regarding the diversity of opinion, by illustrating my own differing view.
I totally respect your right to having a different opinion and to voice it.

Again, my (long winded!) way of saying that gransnet isn't full of spiteful old ladies intent on interfering.
Almost everyone thought it best to say nothing in the above situations.

I didn't agree then, and I don't now.

Lolo81
Holy Hannah, discusses topics always from her way of thinking and qualifies her posts with
extracts from other people's studies and research, if this is how she conducts a conversation within a family setting then I can see no conclusion ever being attained. What I said was true, not nasty.

I think we will have to agree to disagree, lolo81.
I don't believe keeping a child in squalid conditions is in their best interests, and obviously there were also a host of other hygiene issues.

And I would never, ever allow a virtual stranger to share a bed with a young child.

Very, very different from a teen choosing to not clear up their space.

Bridie22, accusing someone who is providing resources of putting plagiarism on the thread and of playing mind games isn’t exactly nice?
But if that’s not nasty in your book then carry on.
It’s certainly not productive.

Lolo81,
I understand what the thread is about and how it works.
I was not being nasty.

"The discussion was about GP's not ignoring signs of abuse/neglect in the name of "letting their AC live their own lives" which brings me back to Birdie's earlier post Madgran, something that we often see P's say here on GN, I've said it myself; 'damned if we do and damned if we don't'.

I'm confused by your post @ 18.54 FriendlyGhost in which you said "my daughter has taken responsibility for estranging me and apologises to me deeply at times". Why does your D apologise to you for her estranging you when it was you who was at fault?

As a part of your own personal journey of acceptance for your behaviour and your reconciliation, have you told your D how painful it was for you being estranged, or was this something that came from her?

Ok Holy Hannah. Didn't think it was subtle really, but I can see that you were reading it from the perspective of your own particular situation

Madgran -- I missed the subtlety in that because I read it more from the perspective of my own situation. Yes, Our parents should let Us live our own lives, even if what they see us doing is 'abuse' in their eyes.

Thank you to everyone who has shared your thoughts and stories to me. I truly wish you all the best possible outcome that suits the situation

Thankyou Friendly Ghost

I do hope that means that you are no longer feeling any "hint of a dynamic of unfriendliness". That would be such a shame for a new poster like yourself.

*In the case of real physical abuse/neglect? Report. Report. Report! Scream from a roof-top!

Obviously!

But if it's a 'difference of opinion' like trying to raise Our religious choice (for example) up to abuse or neglect? No.

Well No exactly! But I don't think anyone has suggested that GPs should do that have they in this discussion thread? The discussion was about GPs not ignoring signs of abuse/neglect in the name of "letting their AC live their own lives".

Summerlove -- "If that were the case I’m sure most people would tell her that she had a child and it’s no one else’s job to support her. Or that if she needed help she’d need to use her words and ask for it."

Absolutely. I have a rule with my husband. I have my chores and he has his... Sometimes we need help getting things done quicker so we just say, "Hey Babe, can you give me a hand with xxxx?" In other words, if I need/want help? I ask.

Madgran -- If I didn't believe in child protection systems I certainly wouldn't have entered one voluntarily.

What will make me livid is people who try to abuse an already strained system to try to bully their AC.

In the case of real physical abuse/neglect? Report. Report. Report! Scream from a roof-top! But if it's a 'difference of opinion' like trying to raise Our religious choice (for example) up to abuse or neglect? No.

most parents I know or have spoken with (whether that be estranged or still very much a family unit) do not see any problems with my behaviour at all and certainly not grounds for estrangement.

That was unfortunate for you Friendly Ghost. What made you realise that those views were wrong and not necessarily held across most parents of your generation?

Chewbacca

Actually MissA youve just reminded me that, apart from the thread that you mention thats currently being discussed, theres another, similar thread, regarding a mother who is worried that her daughter's house is "very messy and untidy and what should she do". The vast majority of replies were "Do nothing. Mind your own business, its nothing to do with you". I wonder if, on another chat forum somewhere there's a post from a young woman saying "I'm struggling to cope with a job, a child and the home and my mother never offers to help".

If that were the case I’m sure most people would tell her that she had a child and it’s no one else’s job to support her. Or that if she needed help she’d need to use her words and ask for it.

Madgran -- That is the nice thing about truly abusive parents. They are very predicable. We knew what they would do/how they would react so We made decisions to circumvent their attempt at disrupting Our lives. Our lives were disrupted, but at least it was on Our terms.

Bridie22, that’s a bit harsh. The whole purpose of these threads it to be able to discuss, share experiences and ultimately support and educate one another.
I don’t think there’s a need to be so obviously nasty to anyone - even if you disagree with their point.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

We self reported to our local child protection agency when we had our first. We informed them that would likely be getting a report about Us at some point. We got to know the agency well. I cannot imagine the shock whoever (outside of Us) got when they called to report Us. CPS informed them a file was already open and to basically, "Have a nice day."

Good strategy!

That does not, and I am sure you are not, suggest that other GPs who see signs of abuse/neglect should not report.

According to my parents and in-laws, my children are in danger. Now what?

If that is the case, they should report their reasons for that it and it is for others to decide that your children are or are not in danger. Presumably, others would quickly see that that was not the case!

MissAdventure, surely it’s all about context though?
I mean I have had the pleasure of finding the odd mouldy cup or spoon in my teenagers rooms, which was highly unpleasant, but I wouldn’t say that indicates my children are unsafe. More that I’m lessening the amount of supervision and guidance in their personal space and trying to educate that if they don’t clean up their rubbish this is the outcome. Shockingly, they started clearing away dishes.
Similarly, a small child climbing into bed with a parental figure for comfort wouldn’t be an issue to me at all. In order for anyone to be in contact with the child then a level of judgement has already been levied.
When I see people refer to the safety of a child I would generally assume they are referring to having a roof over their head, meals on the table, clean clothes and a supportive and physically safe environment.
The things you have mentioned as examples are, to me, personal choices about standards of living, which are parental decisions.
I understand that you were illustrating the diversity of opinion within parents of adults. And opinions are fine, it’s what is then verbalised and enacted that, to me can cause a huge amount of unnecessary drama in a relationship, which as we’ve seen on many threads here can get out of hand very easily.

What the grand-parent calls "genuine concern" for the well-being of a grand-child can also be a furthering of abuse/extension of it toward the parent

Having had to deal with a very significant number of child abuse and/or neglect cases, identifying key indicators, over many years, Holy Hannah I can assure you that there are clear signs that are obvious. For a GP, well yes, in some cases that might be extension and they might think it was "genuine concern" but my point was that I would assume no one would expect a GP to ignore clear signs of neglect/abuse in the name of "letting AC live their own lives" ...and then it is for others to make the judgement isn't it!! Not judgements about the GPs motivations, just about the child!!