SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

It's very hard to get why people cause estrangement but it's not hard to get why it hurts when it happens.

Madgran thank you for the flowers.

Smiles we both have cruel cowardly son's. But I always try and find a positive out of a negative. The positive for me is I found this thread and with your help came to terms with what he and my daughter in law have done. Plus finding all the rest of you . Your friendship and support has made my life so much easier and happier. Because I know I am not alone. And like everyone here we are innocent of causing what our loved ones have done.

Armadillo how a mother can't love her child is beyond me. I loved mine as soon as I was pregnant. What has made my life complete and happy is being a wife and mother and now grandmother. Of course I am a widow technically. But my husband was my one and only and is still my husband. Still love him as much as ever. He was a great dad and was looking forward to being a grandad . But my grandson's know about him as I have talked about him since they where born. They are to young to understand but all carry part of his DNA so he is part of them.

Armadillo you deserve to be loved and that love comes from loving yourself first. You can't change your mother . But I am sure you have some family and friends who love you. Embrace that love. We can't change the past but we can make a good present and future. Hopefully you are making a good present and looking to the future.

Estrangement is a form of death I have realised. And you have to go through the same grieving. No emotion you feel is wrong anger ,rage , guilt, loss, helplessness, etc are all the right emotions and if you want to scream,shout cry or hit a pillow it's all part of it. Took me a long time after my husband's death to realise that. Had to learn all that on my own. Went to breavenment group no help what so ever. Everyone was in their late 60's plus and most grandparents. Even the counselor was married. Only went as my children thought it would help me.

Think you have to experience a thing before you can help other people. Unless you know how it feels how can you relate to how they are feeling. I only talk about things I have experienced as hopefully I can offer some help or be an understanding listener. My husband dieing my present and future died with him. So had to make a new present and future. Had to do a lot of firsts which was hard but had promised him to live the best life I can and do.

Same with my son . Still have the past but any present and future is dead with him . But if my 3 grandson's want to know me I am here . Will have to wait a long time as the oldest is 4. But have always been a patient person.

Smiles I hope your husband danced you all round the house last night??and you fell into bed later exhausted but happy again.

Take care of yourselves and as usual I have rambled on but I am like that in person. ? to you all.

Mr. S. decided to try and cheer me up with some of my favourite music bless him. It's working.

Sometimes I saw a different side of my mum and she said nice things to me. I used to live for those moments and I'd be so happy.
People are supposed to be nice and say nice things though aren't they really so if saying one nice thing stands out because everything else is awful then that's not a good thing to treasure and I had to learn that the hard way.

Thanks Madgran

Whiff dont know what happened there .. hopefully this time you will get .

And you deserve some too Smileless

It's shockingly cruel and cowardly isn't it Whiff.

The last time we saw our GS was just before we went on holiday for 3 weeks. He was 8 months old and I kissed him goodbye saying we'd see him soon.

Four weeks later when we'd returned home and I 'phoned our ES to wish him a happy birthday I got a recorded message telling me 'the person you are calling is not accepting calls from this number'.

He'd blocked our 'phone and like your son "he knew what he was going to do".

What hurts so much and I will never understand he was here on my birthday 4 days before. He knew what he was going to do . So why did he make it such a lovely time and talk about putting paving down for me

Why indeed Whiff. How painful and confusing for you. flowers

Smiles you are so right I am sick to death of Harry and Meghan. Boo boo his mom died when he was young. How many hundreds of thousands of children have lost one or both parents when they were young. They don't keep harping on about it. They didn't have millions of pounds to inherit. They had to grow up and make their own way in this world without someone catering to their every need. They say they want privacy and yet they do everything thing to court it. America is welcome to the ungrateful spoilt pair.

Smiles I am sorry you are reliving it all over again . You don't deserve that. But I totally understand how you can feel that way. I can see it happening to me soon as it will be a year on 14th since I saw my son's eldest 2. My first mother's day without anything from him. Funny Christmas didn't bother me. Don't understand why I am already feeling it about mother's day.

On this thread we know what true estrangement is. I liken it to a form of death. We are grieving for our loved ones . We are grieving for what we had and can never have again. Even if there is a reconciliation what we had has been lost it will never be the same. I know I can never forgive my son and daughter in law. And will never trust my son ever again. The man he was wouldn't have been so cruel and cowardly as the man he showed himself to be in May when he sent me that email and later that letter. What hurts so much and I will never understand he was here on my birthday 4 days before. He knew what he was going to do . So why did he make it such a lovely time and talk about putting paving down for me. How cruel to do that.

Onwards you do what feels right to you. You need to protect yourself and put your wants and needs first. Be kind to yourself. You deserve to be happy and lead the life you want.

Thank you all for being here. ❤️

Thanks Nell and Madgran I'm glad it's not just me then.

Great card Madgran.

I don't think you are losing the plot Smileless. At the very least there is something very uncomfortable about the whole spectacle and I can certainly see how some of it might resonate with you on a personal level.

Re putting things together I bought a great card for my DH last birthday which was completely appropriate for him (moans bitterly that "there is always something not in the pack!).

Not just you Smiles. x

Morning everyone.

Now when you read this, you may think I'm losing the plot, and maybe I am but is this horrendous public spectacle of Harry and Megan affecting you on a personal level?

It's affecting me.

I mute the tv so I don't have to listen to either of them. When I see and/or hear her I think of our ES's wife and when I see and/or hear Harry I think of our ES.

As Monday gets nearer I'm feeling weepy, angry and even physically sick. I'm reliving how I felt when we were estranged more than 8 years ago as if on some level this isn't just happening to the RF, it's happening to me too.

I wont be watching it on Monday, Mr. S. will which really surprises me and thankfully he can do that in our second living room in our basement.

It's already all over the news and on tv and will be even more so next week, so I'm looking forward to when it's all over, all talked out and is yesterday's news.

I'm glad I've got that off my chest. If the men in white coats arrive to take me away, I'll make sure Mr. S. lets you know.

I hope you'll be able to go low contact OnwardandUpward and that one day you'll be able to sever contact completely, if even their minimal influence on your life is detrimental.

I know what you mean about something arriving in a "million bits"!! We've bought things over the years and even the smallest and you'd think simplest of things take some putting together.

Mr. S. always sorts everything into little piles before he starts. All the same screws etc put together which he counts out as well as all the other pieces so he knows he's got everything.

Doesn't bother reading the instructions though which I'm sure is a 'man' thing.

Great news about the negative test result Whiffand that you've got your first jab booked for Wednesday.

Now, where did I put that straight jacket.

Just a quick catch up. Covid negative. So booked both jabs . 1st on Wednesday. ?????

Thanks Smiles I doubt they will let go of their scapegoat so easily, so I will most likely be low contact. I can't trust any of them and am not really interested in anything they have to say, so will just go through the motions to be polite, in a minimal way.

I think some people are having a big online spend already. Im seeing friends go mad for art, fabrics, wallpaper and home decor stuff that can't be bought on the high street. Really lovely stuff too. Shame Im rubbish at DIY!

I think the absence of the high street shops have forced people to look online for alternatives and also people wanting to do up their homes and gardens as staying home more. I just bought a new lounger set for the garden but it's come in amillion bits!

Smiles you have a treasure in Mr S. ?

Mr. S. has just said he thinks people will be having a big spend when lock down is finally over. I gave him one of best smiles and said "oh really" to which he looked rather serious and said "I didn't mean us".

Me too, often can't remember a name but always recognise a face. Mr. S. used to feel awkward when he'd forgotten a regular customer's name and would wait until they'd handed over their credit or debit card so he could see the name on there.

Smiles my mom always used to say call me what you like but don't call me late for dinner.

I get muggled with people's names . I have to make a list. My husband was awful we used to meet people he knew but could never introduce me as he couldn't remember their name so I had to say I am N's wife followed by my name then they would say how they were. Facts and figures, jobs he did decades ago he could remember all that. But names no , not even famous people.

It's a nice name but I bet she gets letters addressed to Mr though.

Sorry Whiff, my brain isn't working this morning, I've just
called you by my cousin's name who I'm about to 'phone.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Onwards I am sorry you have this dilemma. Smiles is right you have to protect yourself. Hope the counselling helps you to make the right decision for you. You must put yourself first.

Looking back I put up with far to much bad behaviour from my son and daughter in law. But when you love someone you tend to over look things. As I suppose I tried to fill the gap my husband dieing made. When he was alive I was always the one to put the brakes on. We never prided into the children's life's as they got older and never once they were 16. We and then on my own always supported whatever they decide to do. My daughter is the sensible level head one. She has a temper and can be suborn but then again all 4 of us where the same. I used to say our house should be called Bedlam as it was like that at times.

I always supported my son's decisions he made even though I knew they would end in disaster and they did. But never crictised . Helped where I could.

My daughter always said she was the bestest child she was right. Why when you love and treat then equally one finds and marries a wonderful man and the other marries who you think is wonderful woman and turns out to be a horror. Who hates you.

I supposed I am being reflexive as the 14th will be a year since I saw 2 out of my 3 grandson's with my son and daughter in law. It was a Saturday and had a wonderful time. Also mother's day is looming. Never bothered me before always said just get me a card . Never expected presents . I got them . But you see I love giving gifts always worry about them spending money on me.

Got yet another UTI on antibiotics . Speaking to my GP next week as something needs to be done. Think this is my 10th lot since September. I have it all written down. Also waiting on Covid test results. Did test yesterday they received it at the lab last night. If it's negative I can book my jab.

Enough about me.

Smiles how are you and Mr S coping. I hope he gets to see his mom soon. You always imagine the worse. Once he sees her he will know for definite how she is and how long she has got. Saying goodbye is important but unfortunately not always possible. My brother never got said goodbye to our mom or dad. And I didn't get to say goodbye to my dad. Mom was living with me. My mom died long before her body. But that's another story. I know you didn't get to say goodbye to your mom. I am atheist. But as long as we remember and love the ones we have lost they live on. In our hearts and minds.

Take care everyone. ??❤️

Thanks hugshelp. We're getting mixed messages from the care home, one said she'd rallied and another that she's the same. I just hope Mr. S. will be able to say goodbye.

It's good that you're having counselling OnwardandUpward; I hope it helps. You need to put yourself first, do what needs to be done to protect yourself.

You could go NC and see how things go. See if having no contact outweighs the upset that feeling you have to estrange even though you don't want too is making you feel right now.

This is clearly not a decision that you are taking lightly and if it is your only option, take it.

So sorry for your husbands loss Smiles

I think I am on the other end of the scale as far as estrangement goes- I don't want to be estranged, but I can't deal with the current situation, so maybe its my only option. Having counselling now, had the first today. As usual, Im getting kicked when I'm down by my birth fam (again) when I'm at my lowest. Maybe if I go NC they will all implode.

So sorry to hear about Mr S's mum smiles - I do hope she has a peaceful passing and Mr S can say the kind of goodbye that he needs.

Best wishes to you all.