SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Madgran: It is hard to think about our own funeral. I have had a conversation with my eldest daughter and told her I will leave a folder with a few documents. She knows I want a burial
apart from that we have not said much more.

My eldest daughter has told me she has been paying into a funeral plan (not sure why that is) although she has not got a partner or children but she is happy . She said she wants a cremation no flowers or party, A car to get her to the crematorium and then pop her out of this world.
We both laughed although I know it is not funny and in the grand scheme of things and if things go in order I told her I will probably go first, there's just to much to think about even in death, for me that's why I bury my head in the sand
do a bit of basic preparation and leave it up to some family that are still around.
All this talk of funerals has got me in need of a strong cup of tea and some biscuits that I usually have around somewhere.

3nanny6 I do understand, and I think my last comment might have come over a bit sharp and short, which was not my intention. I happen to have been helping someone with this dilemma just recently as she is estranged from her daughter - her choice because of what her daughter did to her. She is struggling to work out a way forward for herself regarding a funeral plan but also her wishes when she is coming to the end of her life. So very very hard isn't it.

Madgran77 ; I think what I wrote was a bit misunderstood, my wording about funerals are for the dead (I was referring to myself in general) as to discuss my own funeral can be overwhelming so most times I stay upbeat and that is why I still have not chosen my hymns or songs for myself just yet.
I mainly done the funeral plan so my AC will not have to worry about paying anything.
I have attended many funerals over the last 15 years and although sad we need that time to wish our farewells to our departing family and friends so for me attending those funerals helped me to move forward and continue my next part of my own life still on this earth. I still visit my late mother and fathers grave to keep it tidy and put a few plants there although I must admit I have not been there for a few months and a visit is overdue.

Whiff ; My sons partner is calming down a bit mainly because her brother had words with her, and also I think the baby is due to arrive sooner than she thought and it could be as soon as early June and not the end of June. So my son is coming tomorrow Wednesday and we are walking up to see the horses and carriage taking the coffin although my son has said that there will possibly be a lot of drinking and he does not like to drink so he wants to give the wake a miss.
I have been buying those small babygrows, socks and hats and little outfits so I can give them to my son tomorrow to give to his partner hopefully to keep her happy.

Your husbands funeral sounds like it was a good send off and it does not matter what way the funeral is done as long as it was what felt comfortable for you then that is all that matters. What a great choice of song to have Mr. Blue Sky and so ironic it poured with rain.
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3nanny6 I hope your son's partner doesn't make it hard for him to attend his friends step father's funeral. I remember you said about her complaining that he spent time supporting his friend when he died.

I was going to have pure cremations as I thought it would be easier for my daughter . But when I told her she said no she wants a funeral and anyway I haven't got to worry about that as she will see to it all. We are atheists and had a non religious funeral for my husband. It was conducted by the funeral director. The eulogy was all about him. No hymns just 3 pieces of pop music. We don't believe in flowers or wakes. And asked if anyone wanted to give a donation in lieu of flowers. We raised over £5,000 for the cancer unit that treated him.

My husband was an ELO fan so we went out of the Crem to Mr Blue sky.
Which was ironic as it was pouring with rain.

I think that funerals are for the living not the dead! But when estrangement is involved then the living who have been in the life of the person who has died make the choice more than the person who has estranged themselves.

Cafe AuLait, it's good you had the conversation with your husband, and I suppose when your husband visited his mother a few years ago he found that the relationship had not changed
and there was nothing to work with in moving forward. It can work out like that and we can have high hopes of better times unfortunately our hopes are not always realized and it can all be a big disappointment.
It is right to say let sleeping dogs lie that can be the best thing to do.

I do not give a lot of thought to my funeral I keep a motto and say funerals are for the dead but I am still alive. I do not mean it in a flippant way I have a funeral plan and am still deciding what hymns and music I want as yet I still don't know. It has crossed my mind a few times that my semi -estranged daughter will probably not attend my funeral not because I say no but more likely because she does not want to, that's her choice but I will not be here so it will not matter to me.

On the talk of funerals some of you may remember I talked of the step father of my sons friend died a couple of weeks ago, it is his funeral tomorrow and they are having the horse and carriage cortege which will leave from the house. I am not far from them and my son and myself are walking to the street corner to see it go by. My son may follow on to the crematorium not sure yet, I think a lot of people will be out for his send off.

When we first talked about what would happen when one of us dies, Mr. S. said he'd want our ES to attend his funeral if he wanted too.

Sometime later he said he'd changed his mind because he'd been thinking about how difficult that would be for me and other family members, as apart from his brother, he's estranged them all.

I've said from the beginning that I don't want him at my funeral; what would be the point? He's not here while I'm living so there's no point in him being there when I'm dead.

So I don't agree that there's anything cruel in yours and your H's decision not to tell his mum when one of you has died. There's every possibility that for you "life goes in the natural order" CafeAuLait, and this is something you'll never have to face.

Thank you Whiff. It's unfortunate things can get that bad but it is what it is and you and your DD need to do what is right for you both.

Smileless, thank you for your kind response. We have been through the death of one of his close family members. MIL notified us. DH's mother was all about having him there, made him a pallbearer. This is why I expect we will hear.

I don't think he will attend his mother's funeral but I think we'll see what happens at the time. We would need to travel for that. Me and DH do have an agreement that MIL will not be told about the deaths of either of us until after the funeral, when the other is ready. I know that sounds very harsh but we have reasons for doing it that way. I can't imagine not telling her at all if her son dies. That seems cruel in its own way. Big however though - he better outlive her! She was an older mother so I'd like to hold onto my husband for a lot longer and I'm still pretty young myself. Hopefully life goes in the natural order.

Estrangement seems to become more complicated as time goes on with these kind of issues to consider now.

You've done the right thing, talking to your H about how he may feel when his mum dies CafeAuLait.

We never really know how we'll feel until it happens, but I'm sure that having talked it over with you, he'll have addressed the distinct possibility that his mum will die without him ever seeing her again.

Estranged parents sometimes have similar conversations as we have done, in terms of whether or not we would want our ES to attend either of our funerals when the time comes, if he wanted to be there.

Difficult but I think necessary conversations when there's estrangement.

Smiles have a lovely holiday. Hope you enjoy plenty of dancing with Mr S and a few bottles of nice wine. It's lovely your son's wants photos to remind him of a happy childhood. Wonder if he is thinking of visiting you once it's safe to travel. Do hope so.

Cafe glad you decided to leave it up to your husband if he wants to contact his mom. I have already told my daughter when I die or get seriously ill my son isn't to know. She said she wouldn't contact the ** anyway. There was a lot more * in her reply.

Sun's shining so am going for a walk for a hour. I am very unfit. So decided I must go for a walk everyday. Gardening isn't enough.

Have a good day everyone. ?

Thanks for the advice. I suppose I was thinking of if something came up, rather than seeking MIL out myself. My husband has visited his mother once, a few years ago now. During that visit nothing was discussed that might have helped them move forward and there has been no contact since.

I'm sure we would hear if MIL died. I think, from the little I do know, that MIL is in fair health for her age but I don't know. If she's anything like her mother, I wouldn't want to put anything like that on her.

For now I think I'll let sleeping dogs lie. It's not up to me anyway. I have had the chat with my husband about making sure he doesn't have regrets if she dies. That's probably my duty done.

Your post shows what a caring and considerate person you are CafeAuLait.

I agree with 3nanny that this is a conversation you should have with your DH.

TBH unless your H would be willing to have some contact with his mum, I would advise against you contacting her even with his approval.

She may take it as a sign that her son is thinking about getting in touch and could give her false hope. If your H has no intentions of ever contacting her again, I think it would be best left.

It's such a sad situation isn't it and I know that if we were ever to be contacted by our ES's wife, my first thought would be that our son was thinking of making contact.

After almost 8 years of estrangement, he did email me within a couple of days of my mother's death and TBH I didn't really know how I felt about that, and still don't.

CafeAuLait : You sound a caring person, how well did you know your husbands mother before the estrangement happened?

Have you expressed these thoughts to your husband? has your husband had any contact at all with his mother? You say over the years you have known your place and not
interfered, so perhaps discuss things with your husband first
maybe he would be agreeable to get in touch with her.

Now that your MIL is 84 years you can have no idea of her health. She could be frail even have dementia and even sadder she may have passed away.
Still think it best to discuss with your husband as he could be distressed himself if you suddenly contact her out of the blue.

I had a thought and wondered what people thought.

When you haven't seen someone for a long time, it can be hard to remember them as anything other than the person you knew. I still think of old school mates as being young until I remember, nope, they have got older too!

My husband and his mother are estranged. I've never quite closed that door mentally but known my place not to interfere. In spite of that, it's been on my mind lately that maybe one day there will be an opening to communicate with his mother and heal that rift. If she contacted me, I would respond.

The part I am interested in thoughts on: It hit me that MIL is now 84 years old. I don't know if she is frail. Her mother was very frail at that age. Is it time to just let go of the idea that maybe one day we can communicate? Is it right to bother an old woman, whose health and mental state I don't know, with any of it, or better to just let it go? I wouldn't want to distress someone who might be frail.

Good news about your second vaccine Whiff and to hear about all the fun you've been having with your GC.

We're at our lodge having spent a couple of days in our motor home. It was great fun, despite the weather. Only our second time away in it and we were more organised than the first time; practice makes perfect!!

We stayed where we used to go with our caravan with the boys. Memories of those times with the boys playing in the stream were met with mixed emotions. I wondered if ES takes his boys camping, and if so, if he goes back there.

DS in Aus. asked us to take some pics to send as he loved it there and said he's been thinking about his childhood a lot recently.

He's very thoughtful at the moment. I've just had my 60th and Mr. S. will be 68 later this year and I think the distance between us is beginning to play on his mind.

The sun's shining here and we're looking forward to to our 2 week stay.

Have a good day everyone.

Forgot to say should have been having my second jab on 31st. But they phoned me late Friday evening asking me to go in yesterday. So I have had both doses. Told me there will be a booster in the autumn.

Morning all. Hope you are all well and coping with the trails and tribulations going on in your lives.

My greenhouse is up and running . Lots of seeds hopefully trying to germinate. Left the runner and French beans for my grandson to plant . Which we did on Thursday he was very good . Loved using the spray bottle to wet the soil. He knows he is not to go in the greenhouse without me. He put the trays on the shelves and covered them with cling film . Then it was snack and play time. Getting better at following his brothers head round with the bottle. He's like a lighthouse. Wants his milk to doesn't want to miss anything. When it was time for the to go he didn't want his wellies on so I challenged him to a race. Who could get to the car quicker. Funny enough it was me and my hobble run. He let me win as he stopped before we touched the door.

Friday he started swimming lessons so I have a regular babysitting job at their house. Had to have a refresher course on how to use the bottle making machine. Managed a nappy change quicker this time. Last time I was to slow to get the nappy on. Complete change of clothes was needed for him. My grandson did well at his first lesson even jumping off the side into the water. My daughter was in the pool with him . Said the water was lovely and hot. We had playtime them they brought me home.

I went on the bus. It was quiet busy.
It was nice walking through the village all the cafes and pubs had sitting and lots of people eating and drinking. Made me realise how unfit I have become. Doing the garden isn't the same as going for a long walk. Really must make time to do that . But having been planning to do that for weeks .

Take care everyone.

Rhinestone as usual Smiles says it all. All we can do as parents is the best we can. What happens to our children when they become adults is up to them.

He knows you will always be there for him. Big hugs ??

You did what you could Rhinestone which is all any of us can do. His inability or unwillingness to even try to 'fit in' for want of a better way of putting it, makes any family function terribly stressful for you all, as you know only to well.

This could well be down to genetics if your brother has also exhibited the same behaviour throughout his life time.

IMO he's realised that he needs to know that you are there for him, even though you always have been. You cannot give him a home or a direction for his life, all you can do is listen and give what emotional support you can and you're doing that.

He's lucky to have you Rhinestone and if nothing else, I hope he can see that.

Thanks all for your kind messages. My son is a lost soul. He has no home and no direction for his life at 43 years old. He is messaging me everyday and is at some hotel relaxing from his moving with his dog. It must be scary for anyone to not have a home to go to . I have been trying to stop myself from wondering what I could have done better to help him find himself. Yet I know that his criticism of me wanting him to be at family functions says it all. He can’t and won’t live with any expectations from anyone institution. And my brother has been the same all his life. Must be in the genes.

Rhinestone glad there were positives for you. Onwards and upwards eh!

Rhinestone glad you had a positive visit and glad you son refused the offer of staying the night. In my mind that shows he wants to move on with his life . Hope I am right. It will be baby steps but hopefully they will be in the right direction. And you will get to know eachother again. ?

I am glad you got some positives from seeing your son Rhinestone even though there are still many difficulties. I do hope he finds a way to keep moving forwards.

My first meeting with my ES was lovely. When he first saw me he asked if he could hug his mother. We walked and talked . I told him I could not bear another estrangement as this has been the second one he has done to us. He answered that he had broken up with a girlfriend, he was being evicted, his father offered to take him in, and he wanted a chance to get to know his father. I’m not sure I buy all that but it didn’t matter. I told him I wanted to move forward and that he needs to communicate to us if he’s upset and that because he didn’t like the answers we gave about his fight with his sister or that he had a misconception about what we said to her, was no reason to estrange. He agreed. He did start with his conspiracy theories but I never gave an opinion. He asked when he could come into our house as he won’t get the vaccine. I said if he won’t wear a mask he could be outside or in our screened in porch.
Well yesterday I get a call from my X screaming about my son. Then my ES calls to ask if he could leave some music equipment here. I said yes and he came over and would t come in our house but went to our porch and my DH and I sat with him until midnight. He was tired from moving and I said you can sleep in our lower level for a night and take off in the morning. He said no thanks and left with his dog for a hotel. He has no where to go and didn’t ask to stay with us.