Grandparent rights

Not always Sparklers. There are numerous examples of parents whose once close and loving relationship with their AC has been damaged by the AC's partner.

Of course some GP's not being allowed to see their GC is to "safe guard" the children but as I demonstrated earlier, not every EAC stops the relationship their children have developed with their GP's because they no longer want a relationship with their parent(s).

Had that particular father estranged his own father due to his childhood experiences and because he was a potentially damaging adult in his child's life, he wouldn't have allowed the relationship with his child to continue would he.

It's reasonable to assume in this particular case that the father would have regarded not enabling his child to see the GF he loves, as a selfish act.

Parents not allowing their children to have relationships with GPs is not selfish in these estranged situations. AC estranged from their parents have a reason even if that reason isn’t acknowledged by their parents. They are safe guarding their own children from the very behavior that led them to cut ties.

GP's who go to court for contact with their GC are not "going for the same rights as an absent parent". Custody for parents is nothing like contact for GP's.

A contact order doesn't give GP's any legal rights over their GC. It doesn't entitle them to have a say where the children live, what school they attend or what medical treatment they should or shouldn't receive. It's a ridiculous comparison.

The GP's I know regardless of whether they have contact or don't, simply want to have a relationship with their GC. To be able to spend some time with them, buy them gifts for their birthdays and at Christmas which will be received, and be a part of their lives.

How can you "find a way" with someone who refuses to even talk to you?

Being a responsible parent and deciding whether a relationship your children are having is in their best interests is one thing. Preventing children from continuing the relationship they have with their GP's because of their own issues, which have nothing to do with the relationship their children have with their GP's is a different thing entirely.

Every situation is different really isn't it.
I might not get on with someone my child does. I'd have to weigh up if that relationship is positive for my child because it's my responsibility.
If my relationship was upsetting I might not trust that a relationship with my child wouldn't become upsetting for them.
I do agree with it being said that building relationships works both ways but I think if one person isn't happy and walks away it is always going to be up to the person who wants these relationships to find a way. I don't think people have to have relationships with anyone. My mum doesn't want one with me and I accept it.
Sometimes it ends up in court and sometimes the courts decide the parents are wrong but I think it's hard to even get to court.
Grandparents would be going for the same rights as an absent parent and absent parents pay maintenance. So it makes sense to me.
I never put my children in a situation where they would be upset by me not having a relationship with mum and she doesn't want a relationship with me even though I tried to come to an understanding. I'm the one who my children would listen to. So if she had been positive I would have told my boys that and they might have spoken to her or at least been polite. They don't like her because of her not because of me.

Aww thanks Toadinthehole. I'll be 60 this year; still interested in adopting me?

Aww, bless you Smileless, it’s a shame we can’t mix and match. Put grandparents who care, and want to sort things out, with children and grandchildren who want the same. I would have adopted you....depending on how old you are of course ?

Yes of course Notspaghetti there needs to have been a relationship between the children and their GP's prior to an estrangement.

We never expected to see our second GC because we were estranged by our son before he was born. That said, we never expected to be prevented from seeing his older brother, especially as we had an email from our ES telling us they'd never stop us from seeing him, because they knew how much we loved them.

It's good that you tried Toadinthehole even though it didn't work out and that you ultimately left the decision to your children when they were old enough.

We estranged from both sets of parents 20 years ago. We’d tried on and off before that....for the children. Didn’t work. We told our children they were welcome to see their grandparents, when old enough todo it independently. They never did, they saw all the problems, and took in more than I ever dreamt they would. No....grandparents have no rights.....thank goodness.

Some gc have a relationship with the gp despite the estrangement because the parents allow it to happen

It has nothing to do with GPR at all

I understand your point Hithere as if the parents did not allow it, putting their own issues aside for the sake of their children, then it would not happen.

However in order for it to happen, the GPs also have to put their own issues with the parents aside for the sake of the GC ...so it does have something to do with them as well...they also make choices within what the parents decide to allow!

Some gc have a relationship with the gp despite the estrangement because the parents allow it to happen.

It has nothing to do with GPR at all.

I think the difference is that in these more positive cases the grandchildren already have a relationship with their grandparents.

I think it would be very unusual for an estranged daughter or son to want their new offspring to develop a relationship with the grandparents from essentially nothing.

Exactly Smileless - some adult children recognise the significance of an existing relationship between their children and grandparents. Pick up and collections can be civil if not warm and loving. A bit like the way in which some separated parents are able to put the needs of the children first, rather than involve them in a war.

Indeed Iam. Whenever there's this particular subject discussed on GN it is always the rights of the children that are at the fore front as they should be.

Unfortunately some parents put their own grievances above the best interests and rights of their children.

"So the relationship is there", no not always. A friend of Mr. S's
was estranged by his son. He refused to have anything to do with him but still allowed the relationship between his own son and his father to continue.

An example of an AC putting the welfare of their child above their own grievances and not stopping him from maintaining the close and loving relationship he had with his GF.

Armadillo, I haven't seen anyone suggesting grandparents want or should have "the same rights as parents" . As for 'paying maintenance' many grandparents on this kind of discussion talk about continuing to provide regular financial support to their adult children in order to help grandchildren they no longer have direct contact with.

Estrangement is a difficult subject for anyone involved in it. I've not seen any grandparent on this particular thread suggesting grandparents should, or do have rights.

If the parents allow. So the relationship is there.

But the decision should always be with the parents. They decide who is around and influencing their children.

Sometimes there is Bibbity, as I posted yesterday there are AC who allow the relationship between their children and the GP's to continue, despite their own issues.

The if the relationship between the parents and grandparents can’t work then there is no relationship between the children and the grandparents.

In order for relationships to even work, never mind be positive, all involved need to share the same goal and that isn't always the case.

'There's nout so queer as folk" is there MOnica. What a strange way to behave!!

No and I think that if grandparents want the same rights as a parent in regards to their grandchildren they should be paying maintenance.
I like the comment about making a positive relationship with the parents.

No. If you want a relationship with your grandchildren, work to improve your relationship with your children first.

On the other hand there was a woman on (I think) Woman's Hour, this week, whose mother told both her and her brother from a young age, that if they had children she would disown them - and when they did have children she did. The Interviewee did not know whether her parents were alive or dead or even where they now lived. It seemed her father was a passive man and just went along with his wife on everything.

My D is a grandparent and was offered 3 of her GC to foster while the children's mother was going through a bad time.

I'm the children's GGP.
It's not the sort of situation where any of us are forbidden to see the children. We're all still involved as a family.

If it's a legal situation then it's up to the courts as to whether contact is allowed.

It is a sad situation that children miss out on knowing their grandparents but grandparents have no rights in law.

I wish my older grandchildren had other grandparents who cared enough to want a relationship.