Having a weak moment

I think that of someone says they don't want you to contact them then it is always harassing isn't it?
I don't want a relationship with my mum the way she is and now I know she doesn't really want a relationship with me and its just for appearance then neither of us should be contacting each other. I won't answer any more.

Maybe it's seen as harassment if the right things aren't said.
Recently I answered my mum because she said something that was blaming other people for us falling out and I explained that wasn't true and what was the truth.
Well it's my truth anyway and she just got angry and said she doesn't want a relationship with me anyway.
So then she is harassing me because she gets in contact when she doesn't want a relationship with me.

Smileless Innocent comments are like a red flag to a bull with some people - sounds like what you saw as a joke she took as a challenge. Awful, awful, awful.

Bridie My mother was absolutely hideous at times, controlling, judgemental and shaming but I would never have dreamed of hurting her like this, because it would have reflected so badly on me. She had her own problems and was human and fallible, so who was I to judge? I think this generation just feel they are entitled to more, many of them lack the humility to get what they want honourably and as long as they don't have to pay they don't care who else does. They throw us under the bus through their own inadequacies and make a mockery of all the years of effort and love that was poured into them. If we asked them to examine their motives as thoroughly as we are expected to examine ours they would fold at the first hurdle. Much as I love him my son as an adult has chosen to become a nasty, arrogant and weak man. I'd hoped for better for him, I still do. They are exactly who they choose to be. You can keep trying to make sense of it forever, but it's not your monster, you didn't make it and you can't kill it. All my best Bridie, I wish I could take some of the hurt. x

I really don't know Smileless, I just know it hurts us all so much, and I wish i could make sense of it.

If they don't tell you Bridie how are you supposed to know?

Mamabear2o,
I can 100% assure you that I have taken a very honest look at myself, and there is no way on this earth would I have dismissed any problem my child had with me, I would have discussed and taken any action to rectify any hurt I had accidentally caused them,
However as much as you seem to assume this i a problem I have caused... you are in this instance wrong.

I did respond with "well you'll have to learn" but of course had no idea that she really meant it and we'd lose our son and only GC Nell.

The analogy of watching a train crash in slow motion is spot on.

Smileless The deliberate cruelty of her saying that to you is gut wrenching. The feeling of being played by these people is horrific, it's like being forced to watch a train slowly crashing, knowing there's nothing you can do to stop it. Being forced to relinquish someone that you love to such monstrous people is, well, you know exactly how and what it is. I don't submit any more btw, a lifetime of it has taught me it's a hiding to nowhere and help no one. But thank you for the flowers. x

Madgran, totally, just wish it hadn't taken so much to realise it! Haha - thank you for the flowers, this is a good place to visit. x

"Sometimes I think I tried too hard for too long and my submission fed the contempt" that's one of the saddest things I've ever seen from an EP Nellx

Sometimes I think I tried too hard for too long and my submission fed the contempt

Yes that resonates! There comes a point where expecting nothing also means one cannot be disappointed when nothing comes!

That was the same for me Nell although to begin with I really believed her when she said she loved me; I loved her too but she didn't want to 'share' our son, her H with anyone else.

The day they got engaged when we were out drinking champagne with her parents and them of course to celebrate, she looked me in the eye and said "I have only child syndrome; I don't share".

Like you son, ours would never talk about it because I think he can't or wont face up to what he's done, not just to us but his grandmothers and extended family. The last time I tried to speak to him which must be 6 years ago, he said "we mustn't do this, it causes too much trouble". Says it all really.

A lot of estrangements are due to a third party; husband, wife, partner.

Madgran - Sometimes I think I tried too hard for too long and my submission fed the contempt.

MamaBear20 - I only wish they had explained to me. I was never told what I'd done wrong even when I asked outright and begged to know, I turned over every stone of everything I'd ever done and volunteered it as a potential sticking point - nothing, except for silence and the use of a blatant lie that was so abhorrent it was better for us all to stop poking at the wound.

I know it's not the same for every one, and I'm not above being told I've done wrong. I understand that some parents think they are and I believe that's wrong of them.

I did what you suggest in your last paragraph, I let go. The peace of mind takes a little longer. I'm truly sorry your PIL weren't able to hear you and work on improving the relationship with you - I'd have jumped at the chance in my own case.

It didn't matter how hard I tried to get on with her, she didn't want a relationship with me/us

Sadly, that can be the case for some NellG

Bridie, I think when most estranged parents really take an honest look at what happened, they will find that their adult children did tell them why...often many times. But adult children’s complaints against their parents are often dismissed as being “immature” or “cruel” or “ungrateful”. I can’t count how many times my husband and I explained to my PIL what our problems were with their behavior, and yet they still say they are baffled by the estrangement.

I think rather than sending cards or flowers, EP can begin the reconciliation process by taking a hard look at their own actions that could have contributed to the estrangement. Stop dismissing your ACs complaints and really start hearing them. Seek therapy and be honest to help you get to the bottom of it. Then, if you discover that the estrangement was partly your fault, issue a sincere apology. Not “I’m sorry you feel that way” or “I’m sorry for anything I may have done”. A real apology states exactly what you did, expresses regret, and a promise to do better going forward”.

Now some people will look at their situation and find they were completely innocent of any wrongdoing, and for those situations, there’s probably nothing you can do but let go, or wait for your EAC to change their minds.

Bridie, I think ( in my case anyway) that there wasn't really a huge problem other than his partner felt very threatened by me and he couldn't have both. It didn't matter how hard I tried to get on with her, she didn't want a relationship with me/us. I think his life just became easier to bear if I wasn't in it - it was more peaceful, if I'm not involved she doesn't get upset.

I don't think he'll ever make amends now - we were very close and there was a lot of love and care between us before. He knows how much he hurt me (I became very ill because of it) and I don't believe he'll ever be able to face the responsibility of how much damage it's caused. I think it's easier for him to bury his head and paint me as the bad guy. I allow him to because I want him to be happy. Though in all honesty I think it's a faux happiness that can't endure.

He wont talk, or communicate about it because he doesn't want to face the truth of what actually happened. He's even told me he can't talk to me because I'll "change his mind". His partner says it's because I'm manipulative, I say it's because I tell the truth.

How do these people think that how they behave is love?

I'm so sorry you're going through all this too - there are far too many of us.

Me too NellG, why is it so difficult to just say what has caused the problem?, its cruel and punishing this estrangement, especially when its people who you love and thought you were close to are involved.

I could have written your second paragraph word for word Nell.

Smileless

Bridie22 They do don't they? Doesn't make us weak though, just human. And it proves we still love and care for them.

I do agree about the bloody good row though, it came as such a shock to me to realise that the door had been shut without so much as a raised voice. To lose so much so quietly was devastating. I honestly felt like a broken woman for a long time. I'd always believed everything could be solved by communicating.

I know, I had one this morning because of a song that came on, right in the middle of my exercise routine too so I had to stop to grab a tissue.

its sad isn't smileless, I shall as NellG says, hold onto my dignity and carry on, just these weak moments pop up .

What makes it so awful for some EP's is when there wasn't even a row Bridie. Quite literally, one minute everything appears perfectly normal and then wham; you're persona non grata.

I agree Nell there does tend to be this assumption that all EP's are abusive and/or narcissistic which simply isn't the case.

I understand your reasoning smileless, but before political correctness arrived, a dam good row could clear the air of any misunderstandings on either side, now it is so difficult to know what to do.