Having a weak moment

Sorry, posted too soon - I think Smileless makes a good point though, it's the repetition in the face of rejection that causes the problem.

And of course the belief that people are being 'hoovered' by 'narcissistic parents'. Some undoubtedly are, but not half as many as some of the AC would like to believe.

My father used to say "if they don't want you, they don't want you - don't give them your dignity as well". So, that's the premise I follow.

My AC knows I'm here if he should ever change his mind, in the meantime I will move on with my life whilst he moves on with his. Whether I like it or not it's what's been chosen.

That's the problem Bridie and and as you say "damned if you do and damned if you don't".

I understand that those who have taken the decision to estrange may well see this differently. The thing is they've made a decision over which we, who have been estranged, have no say or control.

It's easier said than done to not even try to communicate, to just walk away and leave them alone because they don't want you in their lives anymore.

Bridie22 Exactly!

How can we then approach our estranged loved ones to communicate or start a reconciliation process if our attempts are seen as stalking, or harassment?
Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

Is that my post Armadillo that you don't understand what I mean? Sorry I don't know how else to express it.

What I'm saying is I don't think that being sent a card on your birthday for example which is once a year is harassment or stalking. However, the constant sending of anything would be.

Sorry I don't know what you mean

I agree Sara and Chewbacca. Constantly being sent letters, emails, texts and or gifts would be harassment IMO and being followed around on social media and/or in person for me would constitute stalking.

Sara1954

Armadillo
I was tempted to say something earlier, but didn’t want to sound unkind, but as an estranged child, I would feel very uncomfortable and quite annoyed if my mother suddenly sent me flowers.
I wouldn’t consider it stalking or harassment, but I certainly wouldn’t like it.
Hard though it is, I would leave things be.

Same for me Sara1954. Mine did once send me some flowers, completely out of the blue and many years after our last contact. I didn't consider it that she was harrassing or stalking me; just a rather sad attempt at an apology without actually saying "I'm sorry". I kept the flowers, ignored the contact and carried on as before. No drama. No fuss.

Armadillo
I was tempted to say something earlier, but didn’t want to sound unkind, but as an estranged child, I would feel very uncomfortable and quite annoyed if my mother suddenly sent me flowers.
I wouldn’t consider it stalking or harassment, but I certainly wouldn’t like it.
Hard though it is, I would leave things be.

Chewbacca

My post only illustrates how the definition of respect can be different for me and my parents, of course it is not the case for every for everyone!

Part of the issues between generation is how the same item is defined and seen.

Chewbacca Spot on!

Chewbacca

My parents' definition of respect is blind obedience, never questioning their decisions and agreeing with them as at all times is paramount

But that's just your parents Hithere and is clearly not the case for everyone.
If my DC wanted to start addressing me by my Christian name, I don't think it would bother me particularly. What matters is the way any address is made. And how its perceived and received. I avoided addressing my parents at all, either by mum /dad, or by Christian name. I just tried to catch there eye as they passed!

That's a good point Armadillo, there can be more in a name than we realise some times.

If my boys called me my name instead of mum I'd be heartbroken that they didn't think I was a mum to them.

Thanks for confirming that you think parents pull rank and adult children have no options - at least how parents want to be called

Its not about pulling rank! People are entitled to be called something that they feel comfortable with! I personally would not be bothered if my kids called me by my name but if someone does feel uncomfortable that should be respected. In the same way if an AC is uncomfortable with their name or maybe with a nickname from childhood or whatever and wishes to be called something different, then that should also be respected.

A slightly different perspective but on a similar theme. My children were never expected to call their Aunts and Uncles by that name, always just by their name. However, that was fine with my brother and my husband's brother but when it came to my more elderly aunts and uncles (my children's great aunts/uncles) they were uncomfortable with that, an older generation with a different view of such things. Although all would have accepted it and not been particularly difficult or unpleasant, our children were taught that one should respect people's preferences about they are called and so they used aunty/uncle with the older generation. As teenagers there were some lovely interesting discussions about it all between the old and young generation with everyone willing to consider and respect different viewpoints and preferences. Just as it should be in relationships!!

I really don't understand your post Hithere. Where have I said that I think "parents pull rank and adult children have no options - at least how parents want to be called"?

What's happened to "Respect goes both ways" that you posted @ 19.01? No one should be referred too by a name that they don't like and no parent's AC should call their parent by their christian name if they don't like it.

I had some very silly nick names for both of my sons when they were little, which were carried on into their adult hood but there were some that I'd never have used unless we were alone, because I knew they wouldn't like it.

Even in private, had they wanted me to stop using any of them I'd have done so. That is when "respect goes both ways".

Smileless,

Thanks for confirming that you think paternts pull rank and adult children have no options - at least how parents want to be called.

i agree with Momabear, Ironflower and Armadillo.

In terms of referring to a parent by their Christian name, which is what my post was in reference too, for an AC to do so even when they know their parent doesn't like it, is disrespectful.

I wasn't suggesting blind obedience Hithere as like you, I believe that respect goes both ways. IMO a parent being called by their name when they don't like it, is not a compromise they should be expected to make.

I feel the same Nell it's of equal importance to hear as it is to be heard.

Hithere I'd say that your definition of respect is more than reasonable.

Respect does indeed go both ways, but when one party wants dominion - parent or AC, it's a hiding to misery all round

As a parent I don't see myself in a hierarchy, I respect other people's boundaries and wants and I expect the same in return. If I tell someone that I find their approach/behaviour towards me disrespectful I'd like to be heard. Just as I would hear them.

My parents' definition of respect is blind obedience, never questioning their decisions and agreeing with them as at all times is paramount

My definition: we are all different and we need to find out what works for all parties.
Compromise and understanding each other is key for a good harmonious relationship.

"It doesn't matter whether or not the AC thinks it disrespectful, if the parent does then they shouldn't do it."

Adults respect are peers and have no hierarchy.

Parents don't get to call the shots and their adult offspring have no call.

Respect goes both ways.
There are many definitions of respect.

I have been in a group for estranged children recently and they do see any contact as harassment and stalking.
Everyone says to throw things in the bin or keep a diary of unwanted contact to show the police.
I don't know if everyone who cut off a parent would be reading that advice but it might be good to bare in mind it might make the situation worse if they see you as a bad for contacting them.

Agreed Smileless AC should respect their parent's preference. I am not a walking birthing pod who can have my role diminished by 'levelling' me. People get to choose their pronouns these days, why can't a mother choose to be addressed by her children as Mum? It is my right to invite people to use my given name as I choose. If I invite my child to use my name it's fine, if they impose it on me, it's not. I am their mother by definition and biology.