Potential estrangement... DIL side

BlueberryPie

Here is what my husband and I did that stopped a whole lot of mess from all quarters through the years:

We made a deal that the two of us came first, with our children. Think of it as an inner circle, with the two of us holding hands and our kids in the middle.

Other people were on various outer rings from that inner circle but NONE within it. They could be moved, say with a new friend becoming closer and being thought of as on a more inner ring or someone who caused trouble being reconsidered and then thought of as on a more outer ring. But no one else could enter that inner circle of our relationship and our family.

Of course you'd need a reasonable, trustworthy partner to do this with. So then, say if one of us had an old buddy who wanted to drag us off to go out to the bars and the other didn't like it, the answer would go back to those rules and the answer would be no. If a relative tried to drive a wedge, mistreated one of us or whatever, no, that would not be allowed. That person would be put farther away from our inner circle as far as needed to solve the problem.

Also, only the blood relative or closer one of us would handle problems we or either of us had with that person. That minimized the upset because the more people involved, the larger it grows.

According to our system, the inlaws would be out, from both of us and our children. From there, hopefully we'd be able to work it out but change on their part WOULD be required in order to do so. They would not be allowed to benefit from their abusive behavior to bypass me and get to see my husband and/or the grandchildren or anything else.

I don't know that this would work for everyone but once we started doing things this way, our home, relationship and life became vastly more peaceful and lovely.

This is what our marriage was like (lost DH 10 years ago) We had no kids but the unbreakable inner circle was a strong and treasured part of our partnership.

BlueberryPie

Here is what my husband and I did that stopped a whole lot of mess from all quarters through the years:

We made a deal that the two of us came first, with our children. Think of it as an inner circle, with the two of us holding hands and our kids in the middle.

Other people were on various outer rings from that inner circle but NONE within it. They could be moved, say with a new friend becoming closer and being thought of as on a more inner ring or someone who caused trouble being reconsidered and then thought of as on a more outer ring. But no one else could enter that inner circle of our relationship and our family.

Of course you'd need a reasonable, trustworthy partner to do this with. So then, say if one of us had an old buddy who wanted to drag us off to go out to the bars and the other didn't like it, the answer would go back to those rules and the answer would be no. If a relative tried to drive a wedge, mistreated one of us or whatever, no, that would not be allowed. That person would be put farther away from our inner circle as far as needed to solve the problem.

Also, only the blood relative or closer one of us would handle problems we or either of us had with that person. That minimized the upset because the more people involved, the larger it grows.

According to our system, the inlaws would be out, from both of us and our children. From there, hopefully we'd be able to work it out but change on their part WOULD be required in order to do so. They would not be allowed to benefit from their abusive behavior to bypass me and get to see my husband and/or the grandchildren or anything else.

I don't know that this would work for everyone but once we started doing things this way, our home, relationship and life became vastly more peaceful and lovely.

This is what our marriage was like (lost DH 10 years ago) We had no kids but the unbreakable inner circle was a strong and treasured part of our partnership.

I don’t understand why you are tolerating your husband being more concerned with upsetting his parents than he is with upsetting you. You and his kids come first. Would your husband consider counseling- ideally with someone who specializes in working with ACoA?

OP, please take note of what Sparkling above writes.

I share the same concerns RE - the children around the tensions and drinking...
The excessive drinking hasn’t been an issue since my husband mentioned limiting it to after the children are in bed (Christmas 2019). However, their behaviour/tensions towards me became worse after then. The only times their drinking has effected us since then, is one odd middle of the night phone call, a not very nice message (also in the night) - we both thought they had been drinking and also my MIL comments towards my toddler regarding drinking. They live a couple of hours away, so we aren’t constantly bombarded, but the majority of the interactions that we have had in person haven’t been healthy for our family at all, it has put a huge shadow over us.
My husband also no longer drinks excessive to the point that he is sick. He might have a beer a couple of nights a week, wishing the guidelines or just over it.
OutsideDave comment - I have said the same thing to my husband. Whilst I was pregnant last year I was experiencing panic attacks every time I heard his ring tone, associating it with them. I ended up being referred for CBT because I was really struggling with all of my anxiety - them being the triggers for most of it. My family also live far away, so I felt and still do feel very isolated. My husbands lack of effort in supporting me by trying to sort things out was a very difficult thing to process and it still is. He clearly has his own issues as to the reasons why he can’t speak to his own parents. I imagine it’s because they are unlikely to be reasoned with, protest their innocence and place the blame elsewhere (or on me) I have mentioned counselling in the past, it might be worth looking into again.

I think counseling is probably the best path to resolving this issue. I'd go alone if your husband won't go with you because then you need advice about dealing with your inlaws and him as well. These days you can even get it on facetime through your computer.

Good advice BlueberryPie.

Agree, it would be good to go to individual counselling. Like it or not, as yr husband is not standing up for you, he is part of the problem. Some counselling for him too on his own sounds a good idea. Maybe if it is necessary, then going together.
It may seem harsh to say he is part of the problem but I know firsthand what it is like to have a husband who doesn't take your feelings on board with regards to ill-treatment from his family, probably eventually if he doesn't already, he will start blaming you for the situation, and for being rude if you stand up for yourself. And eventually, when you realise that keeping interactions as short as possible is a good thing, you will be blamed for how you tense up with they ring, and say as little as politely possible, Hang on, I'll find husbandname, you are unfriendly for you, it all will get turned in on you. Actually in my case ex didn't want to speak to them himself, he wanted me to do it
Although your dh is not an alcoholic, it sounds like the parents are, or verging on it, if they can't get through a visit without buying and consuming copious amounts of booze. There is part of AA that is for children or family membes of alcoholics. I think they say along the lines of you didn’t cause it, you can’t control it, and you cannot cure it, but that you can contribute to it. So look for ways that do not enable them, if they drink heavily around your small children, then if they won't reign it in only see them if there will not be lots of alcohol around, and if they don't agree to that, their choice. A doctor friend said that each Christmas one of the doctors had a call from someone whose child had got hold of Granny's glass of booze and helped themself to it. Hard though as they are so far away, maybe a midway point when things open up again.
My FIL used to write letters saying how badly we were bringing up the children, what a cheek when he used to hit his children and at least 2 of them turned out abusive, he was proud of hitting them too. Said lots of nasty things to me too. Various people have said to me what kind considerate people my children are [not knowing anything about their background, just what they see] , and they are. Thank heavens I ignored what he said

Thank you for all the brilliant advice.

BlueberryPie - I love your analogy with how your family managed difficult situations/people. I would love to have that, but as Oodles describes, my husband invites them into our lives so I guess he also enables the behaviour by not doing anything to protect me and the children. Oodles description of your situation - I am sorry you experienced that, I am terrified of standing up for myself - one of those reasons is the backlash from it. I can only imagine the pain that you went through...

I am going to see my family and friends next week, for a week. It’s the only place/people where peace is guaranteed. I have been thinking about not returning and staying for longer...

I was searching for counselling last year, I will have another look and go from there. Thank you.

I think if those visits continue where your in laws continue their monthly binge in your home in front of the children, they are at risk from them and your husband, you facilitates this. It's about time he took his family problems seriously or you will risk social services being involved.

Hi everyone, thanks so much for the advice all those months ago. I don’t come on here often but thought I’d share an update.

I ended up letting things go and decided to focus on my present - my two little ones. Just recently, my husband quite randomly decided to speak to his Mum on the phone about the ostracisation, upset and unkind comments. I don’t actually know what was said but apparently they denied ever saying any of the things that we were both witness to, they deny ever treating me differently and said they consider me family. They followed this up with calling me directly the next day, I could tell I was on speaker phone as I could hear my FIL mumbling in the background. I was expecting an open talk - but my MIL focused on how upset she was with hearing from my husband, she wanted me to repeat the unkind comments they had said so she could deny it and she kept repeating that I am family. She listed many of the social things we used to do many many years ago, when I asked what had changed over the last few years she has no answer. When I asked why there was an atmosphere every time we saw them, she had no answer and kept deflecting by trying to pin things on hurtful comments they had said on me / denying things. I knew my husband had already been through it all with them so I kept on repeating that I didn’t want to open up raw wounds for me, and I would prefer to move on from this. There was no apology, although I hadn’t expected one.

Not long after this, they came to visit us for the day. They didn’t bring anything up with regards to the upset and they actually made an effort to have a conversation with me like normal people do. There was a moment where my husband left the room and I was alone with them and you could tell a switch had changed as it became awkward and a bit sour. The relationship is still fractured and it hasn’t resolved anything other than airing out the issues.

I guess we’ll see if things change going forward, but I don’t think for a minute that things will be ok between us for a long time to come.

I'm sorry that there's been no real improvement Abi but glad that your H talked to his parents. I hope you feel better knowing that he's done this and that you have also done your best to address the issue.

A very small effort on their part but an effort nonetheless. Not much to build on but better than nothing.

Please don't allow this to spoil such a special time with your children, they grow up so quickly, these moments are precious and the memories you all make will last a life time.

"I don't think for a minute that things will be ok between us for a long time to come". It does look that way doesn't it which is why you and your H need to keep on doing what you're doing, working together as a team.

Stay strong, make sure you and your H are on the same page when it comes to boundaries and remember that you cannot change the behaviour of others, the only control you have is how you react to them.

Thanks for the update Abi How brilliant that your husband talked to them and supported you in trying to address the problems. Small steps with that visit. IF I were you I woukd ignore any "sour" atmosphere, Smikess is right, you can't change others behaviour only your own and your own reactions!

Thanks for update, I’m glad that your husband is supporting you and trying to build bridges which it seems might be starting to take shape.
However, and this is not a criticism and I appreciate the written word is difficult to put things across but do you think that you might be imagining things that are not actually there. The awkward silence that you felt could it be your feelings that put that slant on it. With my very overbearing MIL I would put the fences up as soon as her car pulled up outside my house and by the time the only bat walked up the path I was ready for her. It took me years to relax a little and not look for criticisms and rejections when none was meant. I hope your improving relations continue.

Abi there are some really big red flags for me there.

Denying what they said

Putting you on speakerphone

Trying to blame you for the horrible things that were said

Putting up an appearance when your husband is in the room....

I think you should be careful, they may expect your husband to accept it when they rewrite history as this may have worked for them in the past.

You don't feel comfortable around them, keep it that way. Don't see or speak to them unless your husband is present so they can't change the narrative later. They may want to punish you for pointing out their bad behaviour. If you aren't alone with them they can't achieve that.

I agree with VS

This cannot be fixed unless both parties acknowledge what has happened and how they contributed to it.

This is a bomb waiting to explode.

Let your dh talk to them - drop the rope

I think that's a good point Bluebellwould. It's only natural to be on your guard when you've experienced unpleasantness in the past, and also to miss interpret an atmosphere.

Keep focused on the positives.

I agree it isn't solved and there are lots of concerning behaviours going on.

I also think it is good that your husband is supporting you Abi and I assume that you are communicating with him about all aspects of the behaviours etc (including the change when he leaves the room) so that you can decide together how to move forward. If not, that would be a positive way forward. I also think it is wise not to be alone with them, although I know that can be difficult in normal life, you can hardly follow your husband to the loo and everywhere else he goes when they visit or you visit them! So do think about how you are going to deal with that scenario when he leaves the room or, for example, you are followed to the kitchen when making a drink or whatever. Good luck

Hithere and VS. Why ? Just why?

Why indeed the OP knows the situation isn't good, much better to acknowledge that and pick up on the positives no matter how small they may be.

Thank you for the update. As long as you keep the meet ups occasional, you don't have to be bosom pals. You didn't marry his parents.
Good luck for the future.

Lucca @ 18.03 that's a question we've all been asking.

I think it’s key that I stay positive too, otherwise this will go nowhere - small steps. Ive suffered so much anxiety and hurt over this - a kind of grief similar to loosing someone. Them engaging with me in a normal conversation about general things when they came to visit was actually a big step, I felt as though they recognised I was still a human being.

Yes - the why?! I asked very clearly, why is there an atmosphere, why is there no communication (I feel ignored - like the incubator they labelled me as), I also asked what had caused this change. None of my questions were addressed and they were deflected by changing trajectory of the conversation. It was clear that there is an issue, but they do not want to discuss it - at least not with me nor my husband. Maybe they will think about how to approach us on this another time.

I don’t feel comfortable enough to be alone with them, unfortunately - my husband supports me on this. I intend to just see how things go but not investing in any expectations.

You might not ever find out why Abi you can't rationalise irrational behaviour. While you would be able to sit and have an open honest talk, they just aren't reciprocating.

I'm glad your husband is on your side and you aren't being alone with them. Whatever their problem is, they will just have to get on with it, don't let it hurt you or your happiness

Abi

Rugsweeping under the rug doesnt work well