SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

OnwardandUpward glad you have had more videos. It must have been heartbreaking to see how your son has changed. I hope he gets the help he needs. But unfortunately until he realises himself he needs it and asks for help he won't improve.

At least you know how much your daughter in law cares about you. She must be a very strong woman to still be with your son . Your GC are well looked after, loved and you know your daughter in law is protecting them .

Everytime I read our local news and see a report about a road accident I have to read it to find out where it happened and who was involved. My son is a HGV driver. Also any reports of violence in the streets I have to see where it happened. Not logical I know but I have to put my mind at rest.

Went to my craft group yesterday it was lovely to see old and new faces. They of course asked how my family was. So I told them . They where shocked. But the woman who organised the group said it had happened to a friend of hers. She was divorced and her 13 year old daughter was visiting her dad and told her mom she was staying with her dad and no longer wanted anything to do with her. Her friend hasn't done anything wrong as you might guess is heartbroken . Her dad has tried to persuade her to go back home but she just said she would run away. At least she is safe at her dad's . I didn't realise someone so young would do this . But then again never thought it would happen to me.

Has anyone heard of someone this young doing this?

Smiles glad you are having a lovely time and relaxing with Mr S.

I have never felt guilty about what my son did because I know I haven't done anything wrong. I suppose over the coming years I won't think about them as much but time will tell .

Guilt is a destructive emotion along with hate. Don't want or need either in my life. Glad you don't feel guilty Smiles. The ones who should feel guilty are our children who have turned their backs on us but doubt they do .

Seeing my daughter and grandson's today. So nannie will probably fall asleep in front of the telly tonight as usual. I had forgotten how much mischief a crawling 10 month old can get into . But I am very lucky to have them in my life. And to be loved by them.

Take care everyone . ?

Thanks Hugshelp and Smileless I know its all I can have and shes probably taking a big risk to even send them, so I really appreciate it. I hope for her and the GC sake more than ours that he engages with Mental Health team and sees that hes being manipulated by the conspiracy theorists.

Glad you're enjoying your lodge Smileless Such wonderful weather for a break! We went to Bournemouth a few days ago which was great. It must be healing to realise you havent thought of ES and GC for a while. When we first lost contact I couldn't go an hour without pining. Gradually I've healed and the time between thinking about them has become longer. It's been the birthday that's prompted me this time, but the distance is getting easier to bear as I've accepted it's for a time, maybe permanent on my son's part. No, don't feel guilty. It's all part of the healing to be able to move on and enjoy the good things. I didn't think I'd be able to say that a few months ago, but it's definitely more bearable and that was even before I got the videos.

I think for me, it's probably right to send vouchers and a card at Christmas (just to show we care and have no expectations) because my heart turned over when my friend told me she talked down a man the same age who was trying to throw himself off the top of a local car park. I had to ask her if it was him and she said no. But he has been suicidal before and I don't want to have regrets. Also, it's not my DiL's fault she's completely isolated from family and friends due to his paranoia. Or my GC's. At least by caring from a distance, it's keeping the door open a crack...

That's wonderful Onward a thank you from your d.i.l. and video of the children; good for her.

Yes we're enjoying ourselves at our lodge hugshelp. We're so lucky to be able to come here whenever we like and break up the daily routine at home.

So pleased about the ECG results Whiff and that you're keeping yourself busy.

I rarely think about ES and GC now. There'll be something that prompts me but generally what pops into my mind is the fact I haven't thought about them.

Heading toward 9 years now so only to be expected I suppose. When I first realised I wasn't thinking about them, I felt guilty but I don't feel guilty anymore.

So glad your health is improving whiff
Glad you got more videos onward - a wonderful lifeline for now. Hope things improve more in time. I do hope they can help your son more.

Hi Whiff, thanks so much. I had more videos this morning from my Daughter in Law, but am keeping replies to a minimum because I don't think my son knows or would be annoyed. I will have to wait until his mental health is in a better place and he's less paranoid. Finding out his wife and Mother are talking will only make him very paranoid. From the video she sent me I can see he's not ok. He looks very blank with a thousand mile stare- not even connecting with her or their son. I always knew it was not personal when he cut us off because he cut everyone off. He was awful to me as well, though and I don't want a re run of that. I think we may have to be patient and hope he loses contact with the people who are preying on him online, causing him to mistrust the ones who love him.

Great news about the clinic and congratulations on losing some weight! That's very good news, especially about your heart! Wonderful that you have started at the U3A again and have things to look forwards to.

OnwardandUpward glad you got a thank you for the gifts and the videos.
Very glad your daughter in law cares. Hopefully your son doesn't find out and make life any harder for her.

DerbyshireLass glad you are keeping busy and able to get work done on your home . Glad you have decided to take charge. And in your words not be a pushover.

It's hard to say enough is enough and put yourself and all those that love and care for you and who you love and care for first. Letting go of a child you love and especially grandchildren because of their parents behaviour tears you apart. But for your own peace of mind and sanity you have to do it.

There's not a day goes by without me missing my son and grandson's . It was his choice and I will not let him or my daughter in law change the way I live my life or who I am.

Nor will I be reading or researching about family break ups or using any of words like narcissism etc.

I like plain English putting fancy words on things does not excuse bad behaviour. My best friend is family counsellor she tried it on me and told her no. I don't need counselling I need my friend. So I don't mention my son with her as she can't help herself.

My dad was beaten and malnourished as a child. He never laid a hand on me or my brother and even though my parents didn't have well paid jobs. We where always well fed. My dad didn't know what a family was until he met my mom.

My husband was brought up without love or attention. His parents treated him with indifference. He found out what a family was when we started courting. All my extended family loved him . Even though he didn't like his parents but always loved them. I hated the pair of them. But we never gave up on them. No matter what they did or say we never turned our back on them. Because of my love for my husband after his death I never turned my back on his mother . Even though she deigned she ever had a son or had grandchildren.

Both her and my father in law treated my family appallingly. But my mom and dad where devils. When my in laws didn't speak to my parents for 2 years if my parents saw them in the street my parents made a point of shouting hello to them and asking how they where. Even when my in laws crossed the road so they wouldn't have to walk past my parents. The reason why they refused to speak to my parents was because before we where married my husband and I went on holiday together. He's father came round my parents house . I should say they only lived a few roads away. And told my parents they shouldn't let their daughter go on holiday with his son as you know what they will get up to. I was on the stairs listening. My dad tore a strip off my father in law. Hence not speaking for 2 years.

My in laws thought they where better people than my parents because he was a manger of a large factory and my mother in law didn't work. Both my parents worked in a factory.

My son knows what a bad mother ,mother in law and grandmother is as he knew his grandmother. My father in-law died when he was 8 months old. One good thing about him he adored the children. Think in his eyes we did something right when we had them. My mother in law took against our daughter from when she was a baby but was all our son. Until he got older and had a mind of his own.

But like I said we never gave up on them . My mother in law refused to go to both my children's weddings because they where held where they lived in the north west. Even though I would have arranged her getting there and accommodation like I did for my mom. But she went to her nephew and niece's weddings.

So using different terms to excuse adult children's behaviour does not wash with me . I treat people the way I want to be treated . My father and husband both had horrible up bringings and but both where good and loving men. Who went out of their way to help people. They weren't perfect but who is. Perfect would be boring. I am far from perfect. But I have never been cruel or cowardly nor was his father. My son became that on his own.

We told both our children babies don't come with an instruction manual and all parents make mistakes and when they have children they will make mistakes.

My son accuses me of a number of things. None of which are true. If he had the guts to have said them to my face he would have found out the truth. But I think if he had said those things to my face he couldn't have done what he has. Technology is a wonderful thing but it also gives people the cowards way out. It's easy to send an email or text.

The last time I saw my son he knew what he was going to do. So all that giving me a lovely time on my birthday and saying he would put paving down for me to make it safer was a load of bull. I didn't ask him to put paving down he said that.

My daughter texted later to see if I had a nice time with him I said yes had a wonderful time.

Because of Covid restrictions we had to sit apart and didn't hug and kiss like we normally did.

I suppose what I am trying to say is putting labels on people's behaviour is no excuse. There is bad and good behaviour. Bad up bringing does not make bad behaviour and good up bringing doesn't guarantee good behaviour.

There's an old saying you reap what you sow. My son and daughter in law think they are perfect but unfortunately they aren't no such thing. Yes they are good parents my grandson's are loved and well cared and have plenty of attention and everything a child should have. But by deigning them me and the rest of the family will hopefully bite them on the bum when my grandson's are older. Time will tell .

Went to the AF clinic yesterday. Had an ECG and the nurse was pleased with it. Also not having any problems with the tablets I am taking for my heart. I had a copy of the letter the cardiologist sent my GP there was one thing I couldn't find out what it meant. So the nurse explained. It meant the blood flowing into my heart is opposite to everyone else. But until I have the MRI won't know for definite. Haven't got to go now for a couple of weeks. When I will have another ECG and blood tests and if everything is ok then it will be monthly visits. Glad to say the swelling in my legs has gone down.

Still sticking to my calorie allowance and lost weight again this week. I feel well and my heart isn't missing heart beats like it did only very occasionally now and it doesn't race like it did.

My week has gone back to having a routine again. Wednesday afternoon exercise class, Thursday afternoon craft group and Friday's at my daughter's. U3A has started again so that's every second Monday afternoon in the month booked as well.

Smiles glad you had a good time in your motor home and now at the lodge. Look forward to the photos. Have a wonderful time.

As usual I have rambled on but that's me. ?.

Take care everyone and what doesn't break you makes you stronger.

That was a good idea sending them recorded onwards - at least you know they arrived. Oh wow, and you got a thank you. I'm so chuffed you got videos of the GC. How fantastic.

Well you really seem to have got on top of things Derbyshirelass - not only with your jobs but with how you are dealing with things. Good for you. I'm glad that you heard from them and hope they stop playing silly games.

Have a lovely time at the lodge smiles.

I did get a thankyou! My Daughter in Law sent me a message and a couple of videos of my GC. I don't think my son knows and I don't want to cause trouble for her, so I just said "you're welcome" and admired the videos in a short message back. I will leave it at that so I don't make anything difficult for her. We probably can't really make any progress until my son is in a better place with his mental health and gets free of the conspiracy theories etc, but it was a nice little glimpse into their world.

Yes Smileless I put our address on the back so they would know. I didn't have high hopes and am not surprised they didn't say thanks. It would have been nice but I'd rather silence than abuse. Perhaps in time they will thaw or realise?

It is hard, not wanting to play mind games! But when conversing with someone who you know plays mind games, you do need tactics. Derbyshirelass It sounds like you were able to predict their behaviour well!

So glad you are safely at your lodge Smileless I'd love to see some pics too, if there's a way to share them? Such gorgeous weather to be enjoying a wondeful break, too!

Well I think it's good that they were signed for OnwardandUpwardpresumably they knew they were from you and could have refused to accept them.

As you say, at least you know what you've sent has been received and you can do no more.

Goodness you have been a busy bee DerbyshireLass. Oh yes, you need to make the most of muscle when it's available.

I did a lot of reading and research about narcissists when we were first estranged. It's a real eye opener isn't and rather shocking too.

Well, you said that given time they'd probably contact you and you were right. I agree about not wanting to play mind games but when faced with what you have to deal with, there's not really much choice is there.

If Psychological warfare is what you're up against then you need to have a plan of action. Not always being available is a good start. Keep your d.i.l. guessing and that way you'll be able to have some control.

I'm so pleased that you've heard from them and that they have made the first move. Also that this time, distressing as it has been, has given you the opportunity to step back and think about the boundaries you need to put in place for your own protection.

We arrived at our lodge earlier this afternoon after 4 lovely nights away in our motor home. I asked Mr. S. to take a couple of pics where we were because it was so beautiful and I'll get him to pop them so you can see.

Hope you're doing OK Whiff.

Ah, such nice weather Derbyshirelass me too!
Im glad for you that you've heard from them, but good not to be a push over! Even though we sent them birthday gifts, we made no request for contact so the ball is completely in their court. Thanks so much! Yes, I had absolutely no expectations and would rather have silence than abusiveness anyway. My son was trying to coerce me not to have the covid jab, if you remember and also got into lots of weird stuff like conspiracy theories. I am really hoping he comes out the other side!

I'm glad for you that you have set boundaries! A respectful text is better than nothing and I hope you get more in time xo

Hello everyone. Sorry I have been awol. I have been making the most of the good weather. Got my builder here, overhauling the roof, repairing my shed.

Have also been working in the garden, bought some trees and shrubs today, will get the builders apprentice to dig the holes for the trees for me tomorrow. Make use of his muscles. ?

Thought I'd share this with you......

I stumbled across a psychologist called Dr Ramani. She has done a series of podcasts on You tube, all about narcissism. They are free. I have been binging on them for the last couple of days. I have learned so much, they really are a fantastic resource. They have really helped me get my head round it all.

Onwards......I think you have done the right thing by sending a small gift. It's just a token gesture but it does send out a clear message of love and hope. A thank you would be gracious of course, even if they don't want to communicate......but at least the gift wasn't thrown back in your face.

Well as expected, six weeks in my son and DIL have made a first tentative attempt to crawl out of the woodwork. Still no face to face visit yet, just a text. I accepted it with grace and replied with warmth. They are welcome to visit but I am not going to issue an invitation. I have learned not because It makes me feel like I'm doing all the running. If they want to visit then they can invite themselves as per their usual modus operandi.

Although .........I may choose not to be available. ?.

In the past I think I have been too amenable and too readily available. My DIL has interpreted this as me being a pushover and that she can call all the shots and walk all over me..

I don't like playing mind games but I can see that from now on I'm going to have to box clever and maybe play hard to get from time to time. She will have to learn that I have a timetable too and that I won't be available at the drop of a hat nor will I change my plans to accommodate them.

It remains to be seen if we still have a chance of a proper relationship or whether it will be confined to the occasional text from my son. We shall see.

But I know this ......I have changed. From now on I will be setting boundaries.

Hope you are all well.

Happy belated anniversary, Smileless. ?

Oh Smileless, I hope you do get a big ruby! Sorry I haven't posted for a while! Have a wonderful time away and Happy Anniversary!
Have a wonderful time babysitting Whiff

A few of you might remember that I was asking a while ago for advice about sending a birthday gift for our GC. Well, we sent them recorded delivery and they were signed for. I am not holding out a lot of hope that there will be any effort made to thank or communicate back. but we have not missed the birthdays at least. Our GC are too young to know it's from us and we sent vouchers rather than risk choosing a gift that might be returned. We thought, at least if vouchers are returned we could spend them on something or someone else.

I suppose we might also do the same at Christmas. We plan to spend less than we would if they made the effort to act like family, but we will probably send them vouchers again. Giving with no expectation of return, is love on our part but I know it's one way.

Have a lovely weekend smiles

I hope they are looking after you Whiff and hope you had a good afternoon.

Smiles have a wonderful time in your motor home and when you get to the lodge.

Just had an appointment for the AF clinic on Tuesday . They are really keeping a good eye on me.

Just wish I could hear from urology been waiting since March. Would be happy to receive a date doesn't matter if it in a few months time. As long as I know.

Shouldn't moan the health care is wonderful.

Don't know if this water retention is due to kidneys or heart.

Anyway off babysitting in a few minutes. Nannies afternoon workout.

Plenty of wine and dancing when you get to the lodge Smiles with Mr S. ????

Awww thanks hugshelp

It's a lovely morning here and a reasonable forecast for the weekend which I'm particularly pleased about as we're off in our motor home today for 4 nights. Not much room for dancing but no doubt we'll find something to laugh about.

So, until we get to lodge Tuesday afternoon I doubt we'll have any internet. Just wanted to let you know in case you're wondering what I'm up too.

Have a good weekend everyone, have fun and don't do anything I wouldn't do. x

You and Mr S are so lovely and so funny smiles

Smiles you do make me laugh. ?

So, Mr. S. has just said with total amazement like he hadn't known this before, that last year being our 40th wedding anniversary was 'ruby'.

This is in spite of the fact that I kept saying last year that I'd like and enormous ruby by way of a gift.

He's on his eye pad and then said he didn't realise that prices had gone up so much. 'Oh' I said 'are you talking about the cost of ruby's', thinking he might be wanting to surprise me. 'No' he said 'the cost of furniture'.

It's funny where I used to live sometimes time seemed to drag . But since moving the time flies by. I am awake every morning between 5-6 . Mind you the latest I stay up is 10 usually sometimes in bed by 9.

I supposed it's because I had wanted to moved here for so long after my husband died. Also since moving life has been easier living in a bungalow.

My neighbours are lovely , health care is better here. Not having seizures has made a vast majority to my life. Ok I have added health problems but nothing I can't cope with.

Seeing the family regularly was lovely. What my son did that was his choice and have made my peace with it. I have wobbles every now and then. But having all your support has got me through.

Still have my daughter and family,plus rest of my family and friends. So I consider myself lucky.

Hopefully my son does look back on his childhood with happy memories. He was 16 when his dad died. And hopefully tells my grandson's of the things we did. Even if he doesn't mention me I hope he tells them about his dad . I would hate to think he has dismissed his dad from his life as well. Family was everything to my husband. Because of he's up bringing he made sure our children always knew they were loved and cherished. The way I was brought up.

But life is for living to the full. No matter what life throws at us we must live a full and happy life. ?

Yes it was a year on the 9th Whiff. Time goes so quickly doesn't it and it's comforting to have those good memories to look back on.

I wonder what child hood memories our EAC will have now. I remember thinking it odd when our DS told us how he and his brother talk about theirs and the holidays we had especially in our caravan. He talked about some of the things we'd done as family and he and I had a good laugh as we remembered.

He said he and his brother laugh about them too and yet he's turned away from us, his parents who are such a huge part of those happy memories.

Smiles that sounds a lovely place . And leaving some flowers was a nice thing to do. Your mom would have been happy. It's only been a year if I remember correctly since she died.

We all have to find comfort where went can when someone we love dies. Its little things I think that mean the most. A picture , funny memory ,smell or suddenly finding yourself saying or doing things they did.

Since my mom died I have found myself saying a lot of things she and then think oh no I am turning into my mom. But then I smile. Because it's the mom as she was not what dementia did to her.

Since losing the weight I look more like her in the face. It's funny been thinking about my parents a lot this week. But only with happy memories and remembering as they where not what illness did to them.

This time of the year my mom would have made at least 2 Christmas cakes. Dad would have made the Christmas puddings and mincemeat. Happy memories.

Off to a garden centre this afternoon with my daughter and youngest grandson. So we will have a treat in the cafe .

Have a good day everyone.

I'm glad everything went well Whiff.

We took some flowers to the crematorium gardens yesterday and placed them where mum's plaque is. There's a lovely view of the sea, it's a beautiful and peaceful place.

Everything was fine . They have a consultants meeting on Tuesday and will ask about my water retention. May need a twerk to my tablets.

Glad it was nice at the service and you were able to light a candle for your mom's .Estrangement is a form of beveveament just the ones who we love are still alive.

It's like with my mom . I grieved for her while she was still alive . My mom had died I didn't know who this woman was in my mom's body. But I never stopping loving her or looking after her no matter how often she attacked me. She would have hated what she became as she hated any form of violence.