SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Smiles glad Mr S danced you off your feet. Don't know why but everytime you say you have been dancing it brings back happy memories of my parents. From when I was 12 and my brother 11 mom and dad started to go out dancing on a Saturday night. To a dance studio and of course took us. We learnt to waltz, foxtrot etc. All ball room dances. Mom and dad had lessons and took exams to get medals they got to their bronze statue as that was their aim. The dancing changed to sequence dancing by the time I started courting my husband so he went along with us and learnt to dance. It was a fun night . After a while we stopped going and my brother had his new love when he was 16 his first motorbike. He will be 62 in a week and still loves his bikes.

Mom and dad found other sequence dances and went 3-4 times a week. Never cost much 50p each to get in and 50p for tea and biscuits at half time. They where very good dances loved to watch them. They still danced up until 4 months before dad died. Mom only danced then at both my children's weddings and my brother's. As she said she couldn't dance without dad. They met at a dance in 1948. It was held at a swimming baths they used to board it over and use it as a dance floor on a Saturday night.

Thought than might make you all smile ?

Oh gosh yes.....it's always on their terms, the terms and conditions they try to impose, their rules, their boundaries, even down to the subjects of conversation that are taboo. I did go along with it all at first......more fool me.

I should have nipped that in the bud when it started. But I didn't - I tiptoed around on eggshells so as not to rock the boat. Well no more and never again.

I don't tell them how to run their lives, how to bring up their children and I am not going to let them try and run my life any longer. They do not get to tell me what to think, say and do. I am done with compromising and sucking up to her ladyship, feeding her monstrous ego and giving into her insane demands. If she punishes me by denying me the opportunity to see my grandchildren well so be it.

Last week she blocked me from her Instagram account.??. As if I care....it's all nonsense anyway, her posting pictures of her "perfect life". Vanity or what.

Apparently as from last night I'm unblocked again. Is this her way of showing me she's starting to thaw...honestly she has the emotional intelligence of a toddler.

Pretty tired here too, altough not for something nice like dancing the night away. Good for you, Smileless. Did have a nice day in the garden, worked myself to a standstill but it felt good and I'm making good progress.

Today is wet so going to finally make a start on that paperwork.

Hope you are all ok. Sending you all ❤️?

That was a lovely post Madgran and you're absolutely right, we should all be proud of the way we support one another, passing on our thoughts and feelings based on what we are told and not just based on our own experiences, because as we all know, those experiences vary.

Great to see you hugshelp and sorry that you are not feeling well. "it's like they make sure they have their say, on their terms, but remove any right to reply". I totally agree, and with our ES I'm convinced it's because he knows he's wrong but as long as he can silence us, his behaviour wont be challenged.

"She never had the talk with me" the silence is deafening isn't it Allsorts and where there was once a close and loving relationship with the AC who estranges us, we are left with a thousand questions that will never be answered because they can never be asked.

I do though understand why that talk may not be possible when the one whose been estranged has a history of emotional abuse as in Kaboom's case.

Well I'm feeling exhausted this morning. We went to a Nile Rodgers and Chic concert last night and I literally danced the night away. It was fabulous.

Welcome Kaboon, I know you won’t be feeling so down now you are on here, it’s amazing how many of us are estranged.
How far do you live from your mother, you don’t sound as if you are from UK. Is there no way you can visit her, it seems that’s what she wants even though she wrote those awful letters, you were on her mind, she never forgets the day she gave birth to you, whatever age you are. I think you need to address why you keep having these pattens of estrangement from her, have that honest talk about how her constant criticism has hurt you and you just feel that if you’re such a disappointment to her why would either of you be close. It seems that you are not in touch with any if your birth family are they the same with your mother? Does your daughter ever contact her grandmother?;
So many of estrangement just drift into years so in the end you never see that person again. I feel that way about my d. She never had the talk with me.

Sorry, I'm not keeping up yet again. Finally got the new boiler fitted and been suffering with Cellulitis - that's a new one pfft.

I'm so sorry for all the pain everyone has been having to deal with. As DerbyshireLass rightly says it's often like a game of guerrilla warfare conducted via text or email. Anything to avoid actually discussing things properly. I'm sure it's all about retaining all the control at their end when people do this. In a similar way to the sending of horrid cards Kaboom.

I find it hard to respect people doing this - it's like they make sure they have their say, on their terms, but remove any right to reply.

By the way I hope that my last comment did not come over as patronising. It wasn't meant to.

I genuinely think that we should all give ourselves a pat on the back for being objective in giving support and advice, despite dealing with so much pain and emotion

It is SO brilliant to see how, on this thread, individuals with their own estrangement/fear of estrangement experiences, do not allow their experiences to bias them against others who are in a different estrangement/fear of estrangement experience. That shows real emotional intelligence and every poster who manages it should be very very proud of themselves!!

Kaboom, you will get understanding, support and advice here. {flowers]

Welcome to the support thread Kaboom. I have responded on the thread you started but will do so again here.

Return this, and any future cards unopened and don't allow your mother to intrude in your life any further. You need to take control of your life and move on as best you can.

It isn't easy to let go of someone you love despite even though they treat you badly but you owe it to yourself to break free from this cycle of abuse.

I'm glad you're feeling calmer and happier today DerbyshireLass. You'll be feeling emotionally and physically exhausted so take care of yourself and enjoy your quiet day, "pottering in the garden".

Whiff.....As John Lennon sang....."whatever gets you through the night".

Grief affects us all in so many different ways, and we all have to find the best way we can to live with that grief. I am sure we aren't the only people who talk to our lost loved ones.

I feel much happier today, still drained and exhausted but much calmer now that I know my son is at least thinking of me and cared enough to send me that video of my grandchild's milestone of standing for the first time.

I felt sure deep down he still loves his mum but that he has to be careful not to enrage DIL. Poor devil. I feel so sorry for him but I can't help him until he helps himself. He's trapped and I'm not going to make the situation worse. I'm just going to maintain a low profile now. Just adopt a wait and see policy.

Like Whiff advises, just concentrate on my other son and my friends. I am going to keep busy, take each day as it comes, enjoy the present and plan for my future.

A rest from the paint fumes today....just a nice quiet day, pottering in the garden.

Hello Kaboom.

So sorry to read your post, but I hope you realise you are very welcome here. Somewhere safe for you to talk and help you find peace.

Well done on not opening the card, that's a great positive step towards you reclaiming your calm,

Who not burn the cards......have a little ceremony. Pour yourself a drink and whilst the cards burn raise a glass and toast yourself - for the brave courageous person you are who has survived the abuse and for the person you are going to become as you walk away to a better future with your head held high.

Can you block your mothers phone calls, just disengage from her and save yourself further verbal abuse.

I echo what Whiff has said, concentrate now on those people who do love you and cherish you. She's right, your mother won't change but you can change in how you respond to her.

Again well done for posting on here. You have taken your first step to building a better and happier future. It's her loss if she's not part of that future.

?❤️

Kaboom in your heart you already know what the card and any letter will say. As she has said the same thing time and time again. So don't put yourself through more hurt. Don't open it. If you don't want to throw it away put in somewhere you won't see it for years. Also if you still have all the old cards and letters throw them away. Don't torture yourself. You need to put your needs and wants first.

Accepting she will never change is the first part of feeling better about yourself.

You don't say if you are married or have a partner or have children. If you do consentrate on the people you love and care for and who you love and care for. It's hard and upsetting . But you can't keep letting someone who is supposed to love you hurt you anymore.

You need a new present and future and if that means without your mom then do it.

There are others herr estranged from parents . Who will be able to help more. As it's my son who decided he no longer wanted or needed a mom.

Hope finding this thread can help and give you some peace.?

I have been reading. It’s so comforting to know I’m not alone. I have been estranged from my mother on and off my adult life. This last time has been going on 3 years. Each year at my birthday I get a card with a long written letter inside. At times she has sent this card with return receipt requested. Boy did that upset me. But the content of the card was worse. I have a stack of cards which she tells me what a disappointment of a daughter I am. So last year I never opened the card. The last time I spoke with her she asked me if I received my birthday card. I simply said yes. She asked if I read it. I said no. I told her I didn’t need to read how disappointed she was in me. I’m not even sure where last years card is. So I received a card this year. No call, no text no emails from the rest of the family. My youngest brother moved to AZ. I have no phone number or address for him. I heard about it from my daughter who heard from my oldest brother.

Anyway, what do I do with the unopened card I received from a mother I don’t really have a relationship with.

Thank for reading

DerbyshireLass ever since my husband died. Every night before I go to sleep I said look after the children keep them safe,happy and well and I love you my darling. Been doing that since the day he died .
I talk out loud to him everyday day . I have shouted ,swore and blamed him for things. So if you think what you do is crazy I must be completely bonkers.

But it makes me feel better. And I know he would only laugh at me. Whatever we do to give us comfort after the love of our lives dies is not wrong. We all have to find what makes life easier for us to face life by ourselves.

There is no wrong or right in grief. We all cope in our own way.

I agree ...it's the not knowing where you stand that seems to cause the most upset. The lies and excuses. An honest straight "sorry mum I can't see you anymore" would be far less painful. Maybe they are too scared to just come out with it. In which case they underestimate us because all we want is for them to be happy. It would hurt but we would understand. And, as Whiff says, the welfare of the grandchildren comes first.

I know this sounds utterly bonkers but today I asked my husband to watch over our son, to guide him and help him. Within the hour my son sent me a video of the baby standing up for the first time in his cot, gurgling away and singing his little heart out because he was so pleased at what he had achieved. He had just that minute stood up. It gave my son an excuse to contact me. At least the channels are still open.....

I know it may sound absolutely crazy but, like the manifestation of the Robin the other day, I am convinced my husband is still hovering around in the ether, watching my back just as he always did when he was alive. Yeah, I know, it sounds far fetched, but I learned long ago not to question the universe because so many weird and wonderful things have happened to me to which I often can't give a rational explanation or reason.

Yes, I am indeed going to very careful. I have no intention of going through another week like this past one, several times I have felt quite ill. Several times I have taken a soluble aspirin - "just in case".

I will guard my heart and protect my mental health.

Just had a lovely soak in the bath. Going to cook a simple meal.....chicken Caesar salad, followed by strawberries and cream. Yum, and then just take it easy. No more painting for a few days, just cut the grass tomorrow and a bit of pruning.

Still haven't tackled the wretched paperwork......??

DO take care of yourself DerbyshireLass. It seems that the best solution all round would be for you to see your son and GC without his wife being present, but as you've said and those of us who have experience of narcissists know too well, it's a big 'ask' for them to give up even the tiniest amount of control.

It's the same for me Whiff. If he'd said he couldn't see us anymore of have any contact for the sake of his marriage and family, that would have hurt like hell but preferable to no explanation from him and then hearing about the lies told to others in an attempt to justify his actions.

DerbyshireLass it was a shock and came out of the blue that my son doesn't want me . But like Smiles I would rather it happened like it did then what you and others have been though and still going through.

Please protect yourself . You say your son still wants you in his life. But be careful don't leave yourself wide open to be hurt again and make yourself ill.

If my son had said to me face to face mom I can't see you again because of my wife's jealous. I would have understood. I would have been upset and hurt. But I would have said the children come first. And would have asked if he could have let me have a photo every now and then.

I have never made demands of my family and he knows that. Like I said I put up with him letting me down and my daughter in law's rudeness. Because I was just happy being with them.

Instead I got called vindictive and manipulative . And he re wrote history with his lies.

I am happy with zero contact. Because neither of them can hurt me anymore. I miss the son I knew and miss my grandson's but it's his choice not mine and he will have to explain to his children why. Hopefully without all the lies.

I will not live with what if's . I live in the now and for the future. With people who love and care for me.

Smileless - I get exactly what you are saying. And I can understand how taking back control is empowering. And believe me, I have thought about doing this so often. It would probably be the most sensible thing to do.

But I still believe that my son DOES want me in his life. In fact as of an hour ago, I now know it to be the case. He has just sent me a text - more of that in a moment - and I am taking that as proof of his good intent. And whilst he does want me, then I will be there.

I genuinely think that all of this is down to DIL. She is a classic narcissist. I recognise all the signs because my dad was a narc too. And I'm not talking just a bit vain or shallow I am talking about full on NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). And I know from bitter experience that you cannot ever win with them. The only way to protect oneself is to walk away or at best hold them at arms length. Holding him at arms length worked with my dad. I learned how to manage the situation well enough. I did it because I wanted to maintain a relationship with my mum.

The problem here is the hold DIL has over my son. She is doing all the classic narc stuff, controlling him even to the extent of trying to pretend to be him sometimes when she texts his brother. Honestly you couldn't make it up, it sounds unbelievable but it's true. And I know in my very soul she will not hesitate to use the children as a weapon against him.

I know I have raged and called him a gutless coward but I can see that he probably feels powerless. He can't see the wood for the trees. And why should he, what does he know about managing narcs. He probably doesnt even realise that's what she is. I protected him from his grandfathers worst excesses, so, although he grew up knowing a little about how difficult his grandfather could be, he never knew the full story and never had to try and deal with it all because I took the brunt of it. He did once ask "why is grandad so nasty to you".

He once thanked me for his wonderful childhood and told me how calm and peaceful our home was. He had seen first hand some of his friends having to survive dysfunctional families, their parents acrimonious divorces etc and he always said how lucky he was, because his life was so charmed. He even commented that he had watched his father and I have such a wonderful marriage and that that was he what he wanted for himself, a good marriage and a peaceful family life.

Well he chose the wrong girl.

I think he is beginning to realise the enormity of his mistake but of course now that he has children he feels trapped. She will use the children as leverage to control him. She will threaten to take them to her home country, half way across the world. Joint custody would be impossible.

I was only thinking this morning about how it came to this. And I think it is because my son did not grieve the death of his father properly. He just buried himself in his work, took no time off, hardly ever spoke about his dad, or his illness. I think he just couldn't handle it so he tried to block it out.

DIL came on the scene within a couple of weeks of his fathers death and I think it was just too soon. I think he was vulnerable, lost and lonely and he grabbed the chance of happiness. I was delighted to see him happy but I did have my misgivings that it was too much, too soon. Looking back I think he was a drowning man and she was his life raft. I think had the situation been different they might have dated for a while and it would have fizzled out. He would have called her too high maintenance and laughed it off, Maybe I'm wrong and they would have married anyway, but I don't think so. I think he just rushed into it because he was lonely and missing his dad. I still think that had my husband been alive things might not have escalated out of control the way they have.

I said I had lost all faith in my son, well his text today has proved me wrong. He does still want me in his life, it's DIL who is trying to pull him away from his family. This leaves my son walking a tightrope. So I take it all back. Yes his behaviour is cowardly but I can see why, he is terrified and he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's ground down and at the moment seems utterly beaten.

It does make me feel better knowing that he still wants me in his life, even if I know that sooner or later he may well be forced into cutting all ties .....I'm pretty sure she will insist he does so. She wants total control and I don't think she will let up until she gets it. She might let him see me and bring the children for a while but I am pretty certain she will keep applying pressure until he breaks and caves in. Narcs need to win, whatever the cost and they are prepared to fight dirty.

I still feel that I simply want to banish her from my life. I am done with her. I a, not sure I could tolerate her in my presence, not even for my sons sake. Is it worth trying or should I just try to engineer it in such a way that she thinks that cutting ties with me is all her idea. Let her think she's won and that she's being magnanimous for allowing him to visit his mum now and again. ?. God I sound as bad as she is but I dare say any parent in my position would try and fight back and rescue something. What she doesn't know yet, is that I can fight dirty too.

I learned from handling my dad that you do have to stand up to narcs and sometimes the best way is to feed their ego just enough to keep things on an even keel. Not sure if I can do it with her, tbh I don't even want to try. I would much rather walk away and leave her to it. But then I don't feel that I can just abandon my son to his fate. Maybe letting her think she's won will buy him some time to figure things out.

Ideally he should get himself a good lawyer and start getting his ducks in a row but obviously I can't suggest this unless he confides in me and asks for my advice or help. It's up to him. If he wants me to bow out to comply with her wishes then I will do so, probably with both a huge sigh of relief and a profound sadness for my son.

What a pickle.

I asked recently, not sure if it was this thread or one of the other estrangement threads, if a sudden estrangement with no warning is preferable to the slow agonising death of the relationship.

To say ours was a shock is one hell of an understatement but reading your posts this morning DerbyshireLass, I think it is preferable to what you are now going through.

The treatment you are receiving at the hands of your son and his wife is cruel and cowardly. It is hard to let go, but hanging on is harder.

I wonder if you should think about 'taking the bull by the horns', texting or writing to your son saying that you're taking this silence as his estrangement of you and that you wont be contacting him again.

I've posted this to another GN this morning on another thread. 4 years ago when we'd settled on moving here, I sent our ES a 'goodbye' email. I was amazed at how empowering that was. The estrangement was his decision not ours, but sending that email gave me back some control over my life and our future.

"I've lost all trust and faith in them" and even though we don't love our EAC any less, how on earth could we ever have a relationship with them, ever again?

Just thinking Whiff. It must have been such a shock for you when your son turned against you without warning.

At least I have had an idea that estrangement was in the air. Not a bolt out of the blue the way yours was.

Mine isn't official yet. Technically it's just the silent treatment. It's been around 10 days now so still time for them to come crawling out the woodwork again but frankly I don't think I want to do thus anymore. I just don't think it's worth because I know any reprieve will only be temporary until it all flares up again. I've lost all trust and faith in them.

It's time I got off the rollercoaster isn't it.

Thanks Whiff......such kind thoughtful words. And yes your son, like mine, are no longer the kind loving sons they once wore.

You are so right, I AM going to just let go of it all now. Stop torturing myself. Time to heal, get well and strong again.

I have just given the shed another coat of paint. I have to say it's looking very nice. It needs one more but I need to have a break for a couple of days. Paint upsets my stomach if I do too much so I'll leave the last coat till the weekend.

Keeping busy is key isn't it. Whilst the weather is good I'm concentrating on the garden and all the outside jobs. Then over the winter a massive declutter and a bit of decorating. But I'm also determined to get out and about a bit more this winter - covid permitting. I have had enough of being a hermit.

Also going to give myself a mini makeover too. Get my hair cut, a massage, some new clothes. Time for me now.

Hopefully all this fresh air and outdoor work will help me sleep better soon. Rain forecast this afternoon so might start a bit of a paperwork sort out.

Like you say, just keep myself busy. Thanks again for your kind thoughts and support.

DerbyshireLass sorry you had another bad night. You are not alone facing this on your own others here are as well.

My son saw his father battling cancer and losing. So he only had me. He knows my health problems but I get on with things. When he decided he no longer wanted me in his life he knew I was waiting for a bubble echo on my heart. It just shows how little he cares about me . Or perhaps he was hoping the shock of him taking himself and my grandson's away from me would give me a heart attack. Like I said this isn't the son I know.

The son I know took me to see a neurologist at St George's hospital in May 2019. After a 12 hours shift he had dinner and some sleep before driving 3 hours to my home . Then having to get me to the hospital by 9am. The same son that stayed with me for over 12 hours in November 2019 at the hospital while I was having seizures and the same son who took me to see my new neurologist in January last year. And gave him lots of information about what happens to me from what he had seen since he was old enough to understand. He was 6 months old when I got ill.

The same son who came every week with my 2 grandson's and did little DIY jobs.
The son who gave me a wonderful birthday.

And then turned into the cruel and cowardly son he has shown himself to be 4 days later.

My grief is for that son. Not the son who wrote those words.

Like many here if we where the people our estranged children said we where why do our other children,family members and friends still love and care for us.

If we were such evil people then no one would give a flying fig about us. But they do.

I concentrate on the people who love and care for me and who I love and care for. It's not easy to let go of a child you carried and loved unconditionally but for the sake of others and myself I have had to . It's so hard as I love him and my 3 grandson's even though I have never seen the youngest. I have wobbles. But I will not let what he has done change who I am. It's not bravery it's stubbornness and knowing my own worth.

I have learnt that from how others here they have coped . Plus I keep myself busy. I find reading and cross stitch slows me down and relaxes me. Especially cross stitch which I am addicted to.

It's hard but you need to let go. It's hard as the one person you want and need is your husband and like me and others we can't have then . The one person who you want to make everything better. The one person you want to hold and protect you.

But go on we must. Life is short and we have to live it to the full. One day at time. ?

Another bad night, feel dreadful. Stomach in knots. This waiting game has my nerves in shreds. Yesterday was a real bad day, hopefully today will be better. At least the weather is better so going to get outside, do some more shed painting. Keep busy, get some fresh air.

One thing I have decided. Taking a leaf out Whiffs book here - no more communicating by text. If my son wants to talk to me, he can do it face to face.

It strikes me that our adult children hide behind their phones, lap tops or whatever. They use technology as a weapon in some sort of guerilla warfare, they lurk in the shadows, strike and then run, sending insane demands and bullying and abusive texts.. Like all bullies they are basically cowards.....

Well I'm not playing their silly war games any more. If they want to discuss things face to face in a civilised manner then I'm prepared to engage. Otherwise no dice. Just going to have to harden my heart a little and protect my own interests from now on. It's making me ill. I am a widow, living alone, I can't afford to get sick.

It is with a sinking feeling that I am starting to realise that I have been far too soft. They have used my softness and kindness against me, used me, taken advantage of my good nature. It's hard for me to face up to the truth but if I am to heal then I must. I allowed it to happen, I enabled them. It's a bitter pill to swallow but I have to face facts. The have abused my love.

My friend and my other son both checked in with me yesterday to see how I was doing.
Nice to know there are some people who still care about me.

I could be lying dead on the floor for all my soon to be estranged son and DIL know. That's how much they care.?. Says it all really doesn't it.

Anyway going to do my best to put it out of my mind now. Need to slow down my brain, redirect my thoughts. Hopefully some mindless painting and gentle pottering about in the garden will help.

Whiff.....you miss the son you knew. That's how I'm starting to see things now. My son is just not the man he was. The man in his place is like a stranger. I lost my real son a while ago, I just didn't realise till this week. I guess I just didn't want to see it.

Have been catching up with this thread. So many truly heartbreaking stories. I don't know what to say or think. Such tales of spiteful cruelty and abuse. And stuck in the middle our poor innocent grandchildren, used as weapons.

I'm at such a low ebb today, still no sleep but I suppose at least I'm resting.

CafeAuLait don't worry I am a realist and know the possibility of my grandson's finding me are slim. I am one of those level headed people who whatever life throws at me I get on with it.

I have several health problems but refuse to let them stop me doing what I want. I look normal until I move. Drs class me as disabled but I don't call myself that. My neurological condition hasn't got a name as it's a collection of different ones. So no name which means I have never been able to claim any benefits. Also have a heart defect and kidney problem but I won't let them stop me either.

I was brought up by parents who didn't have well paid jobs. So have always been careful with money. What my husband left is long gone but inherited when my mom died. All the work is finished on my bungalow so no more large bills. Only 3 years until I get my state pension.

I have always been proud of both of my children and their spouses. Because when they were getting married I did offer to help a little but both couples said no. They had a budget and was sticking to it. Both have wonderful weddings paid and organised by themselves. 2 days filling with love and happiness. Also both own their own homes.

My son wants zero contact he has that his choice. And when my daughter in law trolled me on a different forums thread I refused to change my username . It's what my husband called me and I will not be bullied. Had enough of that at school. I will not be bullied as an adult.

Elless I PMed Smiles for a while before I plucked up the courage to post openly. I am glad I did. As I found support and friendship here and have found peace. I have wobbles but I have a cry give myself a talking to and carry on. When you feel able you will write your story. But know this is a safe place . No one judges only support and friendship and kind words here. There is no such thing of getting off lightly as far as estrangement is concerned it's painful .

Smiles glad the funeral went well and was full of happy memories and humour . I know Mr S would have done his mom proud.

DerbyshireLass glad you are on here. You need to look after yourself. You have a number of health problems and you need to pamper yourself and rest. You have been through a lot. Time to move forward. It will be hard but like you said on the other thread you have drawn a line in the sand. You have put up with so much. Time for you heal . Since my son said zero contact last August it has been easier for me . I would rather a definite zero contact than holding out any hope he will change his mind. I miss him and my grandson's and always will do. But I miss the son I knew not the son who wrote the email and letter I don't know that son. The son I knew wasn't cruel or a coward. The one who sent the email and letter was.

And as usual I have rambled on. But that's me. ?