SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Elless the last photo I had of the 2 grandsons I know was 17th April 2020. I image their little brother looks like them. I have that photo on my mantle piece. Plus several others of them in my bedroom. But put all the photos I had of my son and daughter in law in a cupboard.

It is horrible Elless, it makes me feel sick inside but once the scales fall from our eyes and we are confronted with reality there's no going back. What has been seen can't be unseen.

All we can do is live in hope that one day they finally wake up and repent.

Smiles I think it was a relief for them. In a funny sort of way what has happened has drawn the 3 of us closer. They are decent honest down to Earth people. I am proud of them, I would like them as people even if they weren't family. GF is a nurse, my son an electrician. He did go to university but decided to eschew the usual academia or professions. He chose instead to retrain as an electrician, funded himself and he is now own boss. He has only just qualified this year, but he loves it, he loves the freedom of being self employed. He would never have been happy in an office with all the office politics and goings on. The greasy pole and climbing the corporate ladder is not for him. He will go far in his own quiet way. He and his GF work together as a team, as it should be. Neither of them have a nasty bone in their bodies,

We were only saying yesterday that both my son and DIL have become outrageous academic snobs. We were laughing because we were saying that the youngest, who is built like a miniature rugby player, might well turn out to be the black sheep and announce he's going to be a bricklayer. ??.

Now that would be funny.

DerbyshireLass when you said 'It's a terrible thing for a mother to say but I'll say it anyway. I love my eldest son but I don't like him anymore. I don't like what he has become.' I feel exactly the same, it's a horrible thing to realise.

Smiles and Whiff, have you seen recent photos of the EGC?

It must have been a relief for your youngest son and his GF to be able to finally tell you what's been going on DerbyshireLass. It's a great relief to be validated, it's like being declared innocent and sane at the same time.

It sounds as if 2022 is going to be a busy and exciting year for you. I always think that making plans is half the fun, even if they don't all come off.

If there's one thing we've all learned it's that nothing is for certain and when things don't go according to plan, there are other plans to be made.

Projection.....yes you are right, it says far more about them than it does about us doesnt it.

My youngest son and girlfriend came yesterday. We had quite a heartfelt talk. They told me things my eldest son and DIL had done and said to them, how they had been made to feel etc. They had been keeping things to themselves for fear of hurting me. She told me she had been reading up about narcissism. She said "E.....everything they say is M (my DIL) down to a T. She's a text book case, you can tick all the boxes".

I have to confess, in a funny way, it is nice to feel validated, to realise its not just my imagination, she really is a narcissist and a malignant one at that. She's cruel and vicious, far far worse than my dad was. He genuinely couldn't help himself, he was ex military and suffered from PTSD so I could at least make some allowances. But not with my DIL she has no such excuse or history. She is cold and calculating, everything she does and says is done with intended malice.

But that's gaslighting for you isn't it. It makes you question yourself, did I really hear that, did they really do that, is it just in my mind, am I getting absent minded or worse, is it onset dementia. Is it my fault.

No wonder we lose confidence in ourselves when we are being constantly undermined, devalued, ignored, sidelined and gaslit. Thank goodness the scales have fallen from my eyes and I can see things as they are and not how I want them to be.

And the truth shall set you free......

Now that I have seen the light and realise that nothing will ever change, except that perhaps my son will eventually cave in to her, I feel that in a funny way a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I can see quite clearly it has nothing to do with me.....it's all down to them, initially just her but increasingly her influence is grinding him down and he's already lost to me.....in spirit if not quite yet in the flesh.

Oddly enough I feel lighter and happier than I have done in many years and I'm ready to face the future, whatever it holds in store. I now know I can live that life on my own terms, without constantly treading on eggshells and living in fear of upsetting the applecart.

I'll let sleeping dogs lie for now but the minute she kicks off again, thats it. She will be in for the shock of her life. As for my son.......his life, his choice.

I am simply watching and waiting. I can and I will walk away if I have to. Obviously, not my preferred choice but I now know I'm strong enough. I am ready to face what probably lies ahead. I have the full support and understanding of my youngest son and his girlfriend. That means a lot to me.

I am making plans. Next year will see me making huge changes in my life......My future is mine to shape, I will determine how it looks and I intend to make it a good one. Starting with improving my health and fitness and a house move.

It would be nice if that future could encompass my son and his family but it won't be the ended the world if it doesn't. I'm not scared any more.

Unnecessary and cruel DerbyshireLass not to mention 100% inaccurate. I think some posters are so entrenched by their own experiences that they can't help projecting their feelings onto others.

As Whiff posted earlier, we have the ability to see the 'other side' don't we, in fact my first post clearly demonstrated my understanding of the OP's situation and my empathy for her.

We're on a long and difficult journey which is made that little bit easier when the strangers we first encountered here on GN become our friends.

Smiles.....I noticed someone had had a go at you on another thread. Shocking. What is wrong with people these days. So much cruelty out there.

Jaws.....your poor poor grandchild. How could his parents stand by and watch their child do that and yet still deny him access to you. That's not love.

I could hardly bear to read it.......it's harrowing, my heart goes out to you. ❤️?

It's infuriating isn't it Whiff especially when someone says you've posted something when you haven't. I'm seeing that more and more on GN. People jump in and have a go at the OP or someone else when they obviously haven't read what's been said.

Well TBF our cockapoo does have a pink lead and harness but that's as far as Mr. S. is prepared to go.

"threw his arms around my legs and said I missed you grandma" oh Jaws that would have probably been enough to convince me. Poor little mite, they think we were bad parents well take a look in the mirror, take a look at your own children and how they miss the GP's you've deprived them of out of spite, anger and bitterness.

Yogi that was such a dreadful time. I remember the jeering and sneering you were subjected too when you left the court. Winning wasn't enough was it, they had to rub salt in the wound too.

Looking back, do you think if you hadn't gone to court you'd have eventually reconnected with your D? Her H and his family were so determined to keep you at bay, I've often wondered if it would have continued anyway, and I hate to think that you might think you'd have reconciled had you not gone to court.

Such heartbreaking stories on here today, makes me want to weep with rage and frustration for you. These ACs should hang their heads in shame.

Jaws.......I'm not sure about going the court route but I can understand why you would try. I wish you well, whatever you decide.

I'm just baffled as to how and why so many of our offspring are doing this....I keep hearing so many new cases, .it's like a hidden plague sweeping the land. What kind of a life are these poor grandchildren going to have with such unstable, selfish and short sighted parents.

Have no fear our children will one day bitterly regret their actions. They will indeed reap as they have sown. They may think they have somehow "won" but whilst they sit and gloat in their smug complacency they are busy creating their own nemesis.

I am glad I'm not in their shoes. They are in for a world of pain. Yes, we are suffering but it is as nothing as to what they will endure......they will have the added burden of guilt, shame and remorse as well as the knowledge that they brought it all on themselves.

We can at least (eventually) walk into the light and rebuild our lives, knowing that, whilst we may have made mistakes, our consciences are clear.

I spoke with my second son at some length yesterday. I'm not the only my one my eldest son has treated badly, he has hurt his brother and his brothers partner too.

It's a terrible thing for a mother to say but I'll say it anyway. I love my eldest son but I don't like him anymore. I don't like what he has become. How could he be so weak and spineless. And how could such a clever man be so stupid. Ah well they say love is blind. But it's not my idea of true love and it's not what a healthy relationship should look like.

I look at him sometimes and think "who are you, what have you done with my real son". Because when I look in his eyes I don't see my son any more. In fact most of the time he can't even look me in the eyes. Maybe he does feel guilt and shame and has to avert his gaze.

I'm not sure how much longer I can continue to try and keep things on an even keel. I sometimes wonder if it's worth the effort.

Whiff, my heart goes out to you. Sending hugs.
I can’t understand how the children we gave birth to can be so cruel.
To deny their children having GPs. What is going on in their heads, I can’t imagine.

I do think one day in the future they are going to understand what they have done and regret their actions.

Morning all

Welcome to the new posters Socks Mimi & Jaws

Jaws I went through the courts & lost. Had 3 court hearings, first one they didn't turn up. I went to mediation first, which was wonderful for me, second visit where my D was invited to attend, she didn't and then the case was forwarded to the courts. You can of course say no to it proceeding, but I went ahead.

My D&GD lived with me before 'he' came along. He lived with my D in my house for about 6mnths & I thought we got on fine. I had a very close bond with my D&GD, was my D birthing partner [the father did a runner when my D was first pregnant] I was the second person in the world to hold my GD after her mum, She was named after me. second & last names and first name I chose after my D & I watched an old film together, I mentioned what a lovely name one of the main characters had, my D agreed and so it was. So very close and loving relationship. My GD stepdad went on to take her names away from her after the estrangement.

My D went on to marry this new man in her life. I actually organised and paid for their wedding, with a little bit of financial help from his family and my D grnddad. Looking back I shouldn't have stepped in, but as my D had only recently moved out of mine, I still felt very responsible for her. They had a registry office booked & a pub for after and I just thought I'd help out and give them a better day, my D was very happy with this and told me he was too. If I could turn the clock back I would have stayed quiet.

Six months after the wedding, which was wonderful, I was cut out, along with her sister and most of the rest of her family. In a nutshell he was highly jealous of my love for my D&GD and perceived I loved them more than his son, my GS, but I adored my GS too.

If I could turn the clock back I would not have gone to the courts, I would have kept quiet, easy to say now, but at the time I was dying of grief for my D&GC.

Jaw3 I wish you well and hope you get what you want. My grandson's are now 5,3 and 1. Last time I saw the oldest 2 was March last year and have never seen or even know the name or exact date of birth of the youngest. But knew he was due in July last year .

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Thankyou all for your thoughts.

No, the legal route is not easy. To be examined and questioned and “prove a relationship” with your GC. Is truly awful, and further distress.

But the last time I saw my 6yr old grandson.he ran out of their house to me, threw his arms around my legs and said I “ miss ed” you grandma.. …. When I think about this, it breaks my heart but strengthens my resolve.
Just need to get through this afternoon, for now…

Jaw3 I am sorry you are going through this. Before my son decided he no longer wanted his mom I didn't know it was called estrangement. But finding this thread and PMing Smiles and reading everyone's stories it saved me . It took me a while to pluck up the courage to post .

It's takes courage to admit that your child no longer wants you and takes away our grandchildren. So for you to show that bravery is a huge step.

I am sorry about your husband's cancer diagnosis. You both have a very hard path to follow in the coming months and years. That alone is enough to deal with. I speak from experience. My darling husband had his cancer diagnosis in January 2001 grade 4 malignant melanoma. We knew he wouldn't live 5 years we had 3 . He wanted to reach his 47th birthday he died 4 days later with me and our daughter and son with him at home. Our children were 20 and 16 when he died.

For me I would never go down any legal route to see my 3 grandson's. I would not put myself , my son and grandson's through that. But everyone must do what is right for them. You have your reasons why you are doing this.

For me personally the legal route even if you win no one really wins. It would just add more things for your estranged child and their family to hold against you. But that's my opinion. And would never criticise anyone going that route if it was right for them.

By being here you will find help, support, understanding and friendship. I know it saved me for a life of despair being able to voice my feelings. My son not only cut me out of his and his families life but all our side of the family. My daughter has washed her hands of him . So I don't talk about how I am feeling about missing him and my grandson's to her. She has seen how much he has hurt me. I had a loving and caring son the person who sent me that email and letter I don't know .

I only hope if you win your legal battle you don't end up losing more. And if you lose unfortunately to my mind you will lose even more. But as I don't know why you are going down this route it's only my opinion and hope I haven't offended you in any way as I would hate to do that.

Socksandsocks if your going to church helps you cope then I am glad you were able to do that. We must all find a way to cope with what our children have done. I know having a faith helps a lot of people . And hope it helps you find the peace you need .

Smiles love the sound of your doggie coats. Mr S is being a typical man. My brother draws the line of having a pink lead for Aggie that I understand
if you saw my brother he is tall big built ,bald head,beard and tattoos. There is a man I see walking 3 little dogs all with bright pink collars and leads. He is well over 6' and big built he strides along as if to get home as quickly as possible.

I have read The torture of going NN - nobody wins. Sorry that person twisted your words. Why is it those who estranged from their parents whatever their reason automatically assume those of us who's children not longer want anything to do with us we must have done something to them either physically or verbally . They don't want to believe that we didn't do a thing. And am completely innocent.

They only see things from their point of view and are blinked to the fact that good parents are thrown away like a piece of rubbish by our children and our grandchildren taken away from us.

There is no reasoning with people like that . It's their view and that's it.

But us reasonable parents can see both sides. I have talked about the physical abuse my father suffered and the hell my husband and later me went through with his parents and later just his mom. My father's escape was to fight in a war and my husband's was to join the scouts aged 13. Both only knew a real family when my dad met my mom and my husband started courting me . But both my dad and husband never gave up on their parents. And I never gave up on my mother in law because my husband asked me to look after her a person I hated.

We all have different stories but at least we have this safe place to come and know we will be listened to with open minds no one judges .

Being here for me means I am not alone . ❤️

Sorry you're in pain Whiff. Always better to be on the safe side but it must be annoying to have medication that will ease your suffering, and not know whether or not it's OK to take it.

Hopefully you'll get the information you need tomorrow when you go to the clinic.

Well, the dogs have several jumpers to choose from and when it's wet they have their rain coats. Of course the jumpers are matching, would you expect anything less. My favourite ones for December have 'Merry Pawmas' embroidered on them.

I've seen some fabulous ones but Mr. S. would refuse to take them out in some of the more fancy ones. He's such a kill joy!!

A warm welcome to our support thread Jaws. I wish you didn't need to be here, no one wants another person to go through what we do, but I'm glad you've found us because here you will find friendship, understanding and support.

I can understand your decision to take the legal route. You are in a good position having had an established and integral role in your GC's lives as that is what the courts will look for.

Yes, it's controversial and some may say that doing this could be the end of any possibility of a reconciliation. I think though that when it gets to this point you are probably of the mind set that this is never going to happen, and so your focus is the GC and what they have had taken away from them.

I am so sorry to learn that your H has been diagnosed with cancer. How your AC can remain so cold hearted in the face of this diagnosis is beyond me but it happens, so with this too, you are not alone.

This is not a route we chose but our eldest GC was just 8 months old when we were estranged, we hardly knew him so there was no way we could have proved a loving and important role in his life as we were never given the opportunity to have one.

It would be good if you could let us know how you get on. I wish you well and success.

It's good that you are trying to stay positive Socksandsocks and if you don't mind my saying so, have been to church. I hope you found that comforting. Our faith has been a major factor in helping us come to terms with what has happened.

Disect

I'm so sorry Jaw3. I haven't gone down legal route but I my grandchildren are 21 and 15 now. They all seem to direct everything and everyone. I've never really come across such cattiness really. But I don't have to jump through hoops any more. I'm sad and you will be too I know. AC has more influence over GC than we do. I'm trying to stay positive. I've returned to church this morning after being absent for months because of it all. Didn't want to feel like a hypocrite. Anyway. I hope it all works out for you.

Hello to you all, Finally after reading everyone’s posts here since becoming estranged at end of last year I am writing my first post. Hoping you will all be kind..
Had never heard of estrangement till then, sadly, I am now fully understanding of the pain and hopelessness that this brings. I know from reading here that trying the legal route to try & reestablish contact with our GSs is a controversial decision. But after much persuasion from my DH I agreed we’d try. Just wish that our AS would see how he is punishing our GC by denying them seeing their GPs. (I’d been heavily involved with them all their young lives.) Often Changing our plans at last minute to do so. DH always told me to say no sometimes, as AS & DIL just took me for granted. But I was very happy to have a close & loving relationship with our GC often having them for sleepovers etc
But, no longer, our AS won’t see or speak to me, denies he has a mother. The hurt i feel at times is overwhelming. Especially, as a few months into the estrangement my DH had a cancer diagnosis and I had hoped our AS would then put our tiff into prospective in the face of this. Alas AS ignores it. I wont go into the history of how he has changed from the son we knew. Too a Long story. We are close to the first anniversary of the start of this and I presume I will be totally ignored on my approaching birthday. No message, or mum or grandma card, the same as no Mother’s Day card in march. Silly, thing to get upset about, I know.
I am dreading the next 2 Mondays as the legal stuff is going to actually start. How has it come to having strangers decide if it’s beneficial to our GC to see us?. I would love to hear of any successful outcomes, if there are any GPs out there who the court decided in favour of their GC seeing them.

Welcome Mimicarol Keep posting when you want to

Allsorts I will be ok I had a nap. At AF clinic tomorrow. So can ask them.

Hi Mimicarol. Welcome. I am very sorry you are estranged it really is heartbreaking. Hopefully you will get the support you need on here, at least you know there are others going through similar experiences to you.

Whiff, I am sorry you are in pain. Would it be worth contacting 111 to see if you can double up on your tablets.

Mimicarol it takes courage to post for the first time and glad you have. You will find help,support, understanding and friendship. Smiles and the other ones who have been here a long time have made this a safe place for us to be. It's been a lifeline for me and because of all the wonderful people here I am at peace.

Hopefully you will to by being able to share how you are feeling and know you wouldn't be judged or crictised .
Don't get me wrong I miss my son and 3 grandson's everyday. But it was his choice to throw me away . I had no say in the matter.

I hope by being here you can find that peace you badly need and look forward to getting to know you.

DerbyshireLass glad you are feeling better. And have a lovely time with your son and his girlfriend.

Socksandsocks it is cruel that our children let us get to know and love our grandchildren then use them to hurt us by taking them away. My brother thinks my daughter in law is jealous of the fact their 2 eldest loved me and got excited everytime they where going to see me especially when they came to nannies. I know they used to get excited coming here as my son told me. As soon as they realised they where on their way they used to bounce about in their car seats. And the eldest always ran up my drive his brother did the same when he could run.

What our children have done to us is cruel and cowardly. 2 things I never thought my son would be. It saddens me to realise he could be like that.

Not feeling 100% at the moment. I have been in constant pain with my left arm and left leg for 33 years. With the help of pain killers I tolerate it. But at times have a pain flare up. Usually in one or the other rarely in both at the same time. It's been months since a I had flare one started in my arm yesterday. My neurologist said to take an extra nerve pain tablet until the pain drops then back to normal dose. Forgot to check with AF clinic if this was ok to do with my heart tablets. I am at the clinic tomorrow afternoon so will ask. So to be on the safe side haven't taken it .

It's not because of the extra pain gets to me it's the fact it annoys? me as it stops me doing some things and I get very tired. It's my bodies way of coping by sending me to sleep.?.

Enough of that. Smiles are your doggie coats knitted or waterproof? I have this vision of them in knitted jumpers with funny picture on them. I know nothing of clothing for dogs . But love the kids film Secret life of pets . And at the end 2 of the dogs are wearing a minions and teddy bear fancy dress . I love kids films. I suppose it's being brought up Disney's Snow white ,Bambi etc. Today's films are so much better . Didn't realise until growing up how harrowing those early Disney films where.

Have a good day everyone.

Welcome to this supportive thread Minicarol. It does help being amongst others who understand what you're going through and the advice is helpful. I hope you get some comfort from it.

Whatever keeps us occupied and prevents us from dwelling on things we cannot change is a good thing Socksandsocks.

A very warm welcome to our thread Mimicarol and well done for getting up the nerve to post. The first post is always the hardest but you're among friends here who understand and will support you in any way we can.