SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Ah lyrics, they can say can sum up exactly how we feel but can't find the words to express.

"Can you give me that part of my hear that I'm missing
Can you give me that part of myself that I can't get back"

From a Sam Smith song.

Betrayal is the right word DerbyshireLass

It's a beautiful song DerbyshireLass, I've got that on a Janis Joplin CD somewhere.

I can't do links, but this says it all for me.

"Piece of my heart" by Erma Franklin (elder sister to Aretha). Janis Joplin did a cover version, as did Dusty Springfield but for me Ermas original version is the definitive one. It sums up the pain, grief and heartache my son caused me with his betrayal. Yes I know betrayal is a strong word, but it's what I feel.

Do our hearts harden? Do they toughen up? I think if they do, it's not something we have control over it simply happens.

When we have a wound, our body produces a scab, a hard layer to protect the injured and vulnerable flesh underneath. Maybe this is what happens to our hearts over time.

So much easier to send an email Whiff or a hand written note forced through the letterbox together with the Christmas present left for your GC's first Christmas.

Our ES stood there that day as I kissed our 8 month old GS goodbye telling him I'd see him soon. He knew then, just as your son knew what he was about to do.

"Just been ghosted" ghosting is intentionally cruel and IMO even more cowardly then estranging. Even though we aren't told why we're not wanted anymore, at least we know. You've been left dangling Elless, you're in no man's land, neither in their lives or out of them.

DerbyshireLass is right, "your inner Warrior Queen is there inside you. She will be ready when you need her" and you may find she'll know when you need her before you do.

Have as much ice cream as you can manage DerbyshireLass after all, as you've said yourself, it's "purely for medicinal purposes".

So shocking Whiff. You have endured so much. You really do have true grit. I think we all do. We need it to survive and thrive.

Allsorts - perhaps my choice of words "hardening their heart" was wrong.

When I realised my husbands illness was terminal, It felt like a shard of ice had pierced my heart. It feels like it has never melted. When my son did what he did, I felt another piece of ice pierce my heart again, smaller this time but it did its job, another little piece of my heart was frozen.

Will the ice ever melt, I don't know. Only time will tell. All I know is that there will always be a part of me that holds back, that I will never fully trust him again. It's a self preservation thing. As for DIL I wouldn't trust her as far as I can throw her. She could beg, grovel, weep, and wail, it would make no difference. She is just a malevolent force. I wish I never had to look on her face again.

Like a piece of porcelain that has been broken and then glued back together again, my relationship with my son never be the same again. I will always be reserved and guarded. That once easy, natural, uncomplicated relationship we enjoyed is gone forever.

Violet - you are so right, it's up to us to rebuild our lives and find our way back to happiness. No one else can do it for us.

Elless.......your inner Warrior Queen is there, inside you. She will be ready when you need her. ?

I have just managed to eat, didn't really enjoy it, my throat feels like sandpaper. Will have some ice cream later.......purely for medicinal purposes of course. ??

Whiff I can't believe what your son put you through, a lot of you have received abuse from one person or another and I just can't imagine what it must have felt like, I've just been ghosted, I'm waiting for my transformation into Warrior Queen

We all need to be responsible for our own happiness.

I don't wish any harm on my mother at all and if she can find happiness, then that can only be a good thing and perhaps I can be left to mine.

Derbyshire Lass I don’t think we harden our hearts, but after many years of being cut out of their lives and not knowing the happiness of our beloved grandchildren, of being rebuffed and lied about, what is there left? A sorry doesn’t cut it for me, because no one who had an ounce of compassion or love in their hearts could treat an ordinary parent like that. It’s a bitter pill to swallow knowing they have such contempt for you, I can never ever understand it even now. We make another life, not one we would choose, but inside that hurt never goes.
Whiff you have a family that love and value you, he hasn’t just cut you out. He is the loser and so are those little boys not knowing their grandma, he will live to regret his hasty decision I think.

DerbyshireLass when I had jaundice and was seriously ill for 5 months. I had never been frightened about being on my own until then. The time I needed my husband 24/7 he wasn't there. And didn't have anyone who could be. Then to find out I could have died was terrifying. I told both my children what the gastrologist said. My son knew I was waiting for a bubble echo on my heart as an echo showed there was something wrong when he decided to send that email. What hurt and still hurts he was so caring . He gave me a lovely birthday he knew then what he was going to do. He was so cruel and cowardly to send an email. He should have told me on my birthday. What did he think I know I will give the old cow a good time then let's see if we can destroy her.

I know that's over dramatic but it's how I felt at the time. But they haven't won. I have made peace with what he's done.

My grief for my husband over shadows anything they have done and always will do.

My son will never know when I die if he doesn't get in touch before then.

Get well soon DerbyshireLass . Sending you a virtual get well card and one for Elless as well and to anyone else who is feeling unwell at the moment.?

Sorry posted too soon......

In the end my father looked like a walking cadaver. The remorse took an enormous toll on his health and I believe it hastened his death. His death, when it came, was horrific. He died full of rage and bitterness. Yes, it was karma.

We weren't close, he wasn't much of a father and husband and he wasn't a particularly nice man but even so I did feel very sorry for him. He paid his price in spades.

You're right Smiles....It doesn't bear thinking about. But our ACs don't seem to be able to grasp the enormity of what they have done and the repercussions that lie in wait for them further down the line.

Yes GPs are hurting, but it is nothing compared to the anguish and torment these poor deluded ACs are going to have live with if they don't wake up before it's too late.

For some it will already be too late because their parents will have been forced to harden their hearts and may not want to reconcile. Some of these lost EACs will be in for a huge shock.

That must have been hard to watch DerbyShireLass, oh dear, it does make you wonder what it might be like for our EAC doesn't it. TBH it doesn't bear thinking about.

Whiff.......I could be lying dead on the kitchen floor for weeks before my eldest son found out.......sobering thought isn't it.

Would a short text from you to say "all ok" really be too much for your son to cope with. To say he was "sick of knowing about you" is truly wicked, especially when he knows you've been having health issues.

One day......he is going to have an almighty crisis of conscience. I am convinced they all will.

I witnessed my father go through it after my mother died. His last days on this earth were a torment of remorse and regret for the way he had behaved. One might argue he deserved it but even so I did feel pity for him.

Goodness, posts are coming in so thick and fast I can't keep up with you all.

Imagine that, your friend's estranged son getting in touch again when he'd left his wife DerbyShireLass. Actually I've heard of that before, just goes to show how much damage coercive control can cause.

I shouldn't even think this I know, but I'm glad the ex wife is "lonely, miserable and bitter".

Cough's are always worse at night aren't they, when all you want to do is sleep. I hope you have a better night tonight.

Just seen your post Whiff your son said "he was sick of knowing about" you what a horrible thing to say.

Ah bless you Elless, and bless your DH for trying. My late husband was a domestic disaster too but I didn't marry him for his culinary skills. ?? I did make sure my sons could cook though and I have to say they are both pretty handy round the house as well as being able to rustle up restaurant quality food. In fact both of them do most of the cooking.

Oddly enough my husband did make fantastic birthday cakes. But whenever I was sick it had to be either something he could just bung in the oven or a takeaway. He meant well. ?

Hope you feel better soon. I must admit I'm still feeling pretty grim, so like you just taking it easy.

Can I just say something ......I know you are feeling a bit miffed but please don't stop being thoughtful. Don't change who you are. Just be your true authentic self. Don't let the unkindness of others undermine your innate goodness. They are not worth it.

As for giving up on your ES - well you have to do what's right for you, whatever makes you feel comfortable and eases your pain but "forever" is a very long time and you never know what lies ahead. Sometimes miracles do happen.

I have a friend who was estranged from her son and never saw her grandson. When she was on holiday (that's where I met her) she got a text from her neighbour to say her son had run off with his Secretary.

My friend was dismayed and her first thoughts were.....my poor grandson. However as we halfway through a cruise up the Amazon and it was going to be another 4 weeks before we got back to the U.K. there wasn't much she could do.

We managed to lighten the mood a bit by having a joke at her sons expense, laughing at his folly, saying things like "how unoriginal, typical male menopause/mid life crisis, you think he'd have more class than that" but I could see she was Very anxious about how her grandson was coping.

Anyway to cut a long story short......his new squeeze was keen for him to heal the rift. Turns out it was the original DIL that had forbidden him or the grandson to have a relationship with mum/grandma. Apparently her son waited until the boy was 18 and then ditched the wife for his Secretary. Serves her right....the boy was delighted to be able to see his dad again.

My friend now has her son and grandson back and gets on really well with the new girlfriend. The first wife is now lonely, miserable and bitter. karma?.

Of course not every estrangement story will have a happy ending but it can happen. Yogis happy ending is testimony to that.

I am not a religious person so I don't look to a god or deity for guidance and support but I do have "faith the in the universe". I believe that the universe always looks for balance and that sometimes we just have to hold on, keeping our hearts and minds open. I do think if we allow bitterness and thoughts of revenge into our hearts ultimately those thoughts and emotions will destroy us.

So don't let what has happened to you change who you are.....still be thoughtful and kind to those you love, and even to complete strangers. Don't let your hurt and pain turn you to stone.

You say you were envious of my hug from my son.......I understand that perfectly.....but if truth be told I am envious of you having your DH......even if he can't cook. ?

I really struggled last night with my cough. I remember getting up at 4.00 am to make myself a cup of tea and thinking "if only Bob were here he would make me a drink".

We would have sat in bed, drinking tea and chatting....hey ho. Not to be.

Oh Elless your H sounds lovely, despite bringing you muesli boiled in milk.

I'm so sorry that no one's thought to send a 'get well soon' message or ask how you're doing?

That sounds just like something our ES would have said as things were turning sour. Talk about self entitlement, some of them seem to have it in spades don't they.

My lovely gran used to say, if I'd been upset by something someone had said or done; 'the problem is, we think others will treat us how we treat them, but that doesn't always happen' and of course she was right.

Sending you and a BIG (((hug))).

Elless muesli in boiled milk? did you eat it ?

After my husband died the children told me I had to get a mobile phone. And to text them everyday to let them know how I am. That was yet another thing my son put in his email about texting everyday he said he was sick of knowing about me. If he had said anytime from when his dad died 2004 until the email May 2020 I wouldn't have text everyday.

You are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

I know what you mean Elless about doing things because it's the right thing to do. That's why we never gave up on my husband's parents. They where family.

My brother and myself were brought up with a strong sense of family. And duty to family. I didn't like my brother's second wife but she was family and treated as such .

Not being able to do your normal things and having to rest does give you time to think . Which can be good and bad. But it's also a chance to make decisions about what you want to do from now on. Which can be very freeing.

Hope you feel better soon.

Afternoon ladies, just caught up on things, Derbyshire, when I read about your son giving you a hug I was so envious, the poor lad must be in turmoil wanting his Mum yet standing by his partner, when you mentioned 'duty hugs' I know just what you mean and they do hurt.
Smiles I searched for your interview the other day but couldn't find it, didn't think to check Youtube - you sound so young .
Being laid up has made me do a lot of thinking and I agree with you that 'we' are so different to the young adults of today and it is an age thing. I don't know how you all feel but a lot of it has to do with manners, and much as we all brought them up well, our EC don't seem to have them any more, maybe I'm just feeling sorry for myself but I am really surprised at how nobody has called or text to see how I am, I know I'm not at death's door and I have my DH to look after me but I genuinely thought I would get the odd text to ask how I'm doing. I remember when we were getting two of my son's christened and I'd fallen out with my Mum over something. I still invited my Mum and Dad to the christening because I felt it was the right thing to do, they were still the boys grandparents and as such should be at their christening, I felt it was only right even though I carried on not speaking to my Mum afterwards.
After all the thinking I've been doing I'm hoping I can change when I'm back up and about, I worry about checking on people and asking after them whether it be a doctors appointment they've been to or even like last week my son's cat was neutered and I made a note to call and ask how the cat was but this has made me realise that young adults today just don't think like we do and it never crosses their minds, well I'm going to stop being so thoughtful. I'm going to give up on my ES waiting and hoping to hear from him - when I spoke to him he had the cheek to ask me, when I sent my GS a card when he was first born, why I didn't put in the card 'How are your Mum and Dad' .
On a lighter note poor DH is run ragged, I asked him to make me some porridge this morning and he brought me a bowl of muesli boiled in milk

It was four years ago Yogi. Can you remember how we were then?

It was a real turning point for me and when we watched it again, well it just made us think how bloody ridiculous, unnecessary and cruel the entire thing has been and continues to be.

I bet you never thought when you watched it the first time, that you'd have your son back and watch it one day with him.

Just thinking of you back together again makes me.

Thank you all. I knew by sharing it with you all I would feel better and am at peace again. Chapter closed.

I think my son will feel shame and guilt and would like to think my daughter in law would do to but I doubt it.

But I have nothing to feel guilty or shame over. They did this not me. As I have said many times finding this thread saved me. And that's why I am as I am now. I dread to think what I would have been like without Smiles and all of you.

Yes I miss my son and grandson's daily. But I am happy with my life. I know who I am. And love doing what I do. Times flies by for me . Perfect example I said to my daughter it must be 6-7 weeks since swimming lessons started. She said mom we started in May . See what I mean times flies by. ?

I felt choked even before I pressed the start button for your video clip Smileless Took me back to that time before I made myself turn the corner of not caring anymore, so I could move on and live my life again. I too watched the clip at the time of you recording it as I was on this thread every day then. Well done Smiles [Got my son to watch it with me this time!]

Well done Whiff on conquering your fear of dogs, what we do for love

It's the only thing that matters CafeAuLait. Any guilt or shame isn't our burden to carry, it's theirs.

Born by the one whose behaviour was so bad that they left those they hurt with no other choice but to estrange. Born by the one who betrayed and injured those that had loved and cared for them their entire lives.

We live with the pain and the loss. Maybe they live with that too as well as their guilt and shame.

I feel sorry for them. My burden is heavy but I don't think I could even lift theirs off the ground, let alone carry it on my back for the rest of my life.

You look back don't you, and something that registered in your mind at the time, but you don't know can come back years later and you suddenly realise there was a lot more to it then you'd realised.

What a huge thing to do Whiff, to make your d.i.l. feel more comfortable when you visited and because you knew you'd previously upset her.

Dogs in crates being the cause of so much upset!! really!! The tiniest tip of an enormous ice berg that you can't see so have no idea it's there, but it is. All lined up and ready to sink your ship.

You thought it was just about the dogs. I thought it was due to exhaustion having just given birth the day before; understandable and yet .......... it was more than that, much more and I knew it was. Somewhere deep inside an alarm went off but was quickly silenced by the joy of being a GP for the first time, and the look of joy and adoration on the face of our son as he looked at his own.

Yes, dry those eyes and file it away hopefully for good but maybe until the next time.

It's our ES's birthday today. 9 years to the day I 'phoned him to wish him a happy birthday, only to discover that he'd blocked our number. Game over.

I have thought about it Calmlocket and Granniesunite it would need re working so like starting again but it's always been at the back of my mind to write a book about our journey.

CafeAuLait

I don't talk a lot about my estrangement. I think people do judge and wonder what on earth we must have done wrong to drive MIL to estrange us. I was thinking about it this morning. All I'll say about it is that I am completely at peace about the whole situation from my side of things and that's what matters.

Well said, yes people judge and its always the ones that have never been through estrangement that have something to say. Its good you feel at peace about the situation and yes that is all that matters. Dwelling on the past just drags you down and you cant move on from it.