The shame of being estranged

violetsky I seem to have upset you with my reply.It wasn't intentional. I fully accept that the reason you gave is a reason why people do feel shame, faced with an estrangement, but nothing OP has written, suggests that that is the reason why she feels shame. I think if it was the reason, someone would have become aware of it, even though she may not admit it.

However others may have felt the problem you describe is behind her feelings of shame. it is just that I do not think that is so.

Monica I don't know if your question is directed at me because your comment is underneath mine.

If it is, OP hasn't stated what their situation is and I am just sharing my thoughts that have come up while joining the discussion as I relate to it as OP asked.

The only people who deserve to feel shame are those who have behaved badly.

So from the many reasons estrangement happens and examples given it seems to be case by case and I am not here to judge.

Knittingnovice, I had a friend, at work, who said her family lived in Spain. She was scared of flying, so hadn't seen them for years.

Eventually, after a few years knowing me, she said that her parents lived in Spain, but she had brothers and a sister, here in the UK, that she didn't get along with. It was like a big secret that she did feel very ashamed of. I still don't understand why!

I think it's because of the comments like 'you must have done something'; 'there's no smoke without fire'; 'there are 2 sides to every story' and my pet hate 'no AC ever estranges non abusive, loving parents' M0nica. All of which have been posted here on GN on numerous occasions.

But is that the cae with the OP?

I think often those who should feel shame at being estranged do not but some probably confuse shame with embarrassment when their image matters more than their child, as with my mother.

I still do not understand why anyone should feel shame that this has happened to them. I have friends who are estranged from their children and it has never even occurred to me that anyone would think this was something to be ashamed of. It happens and for a wide variety of reasons or even for no visible reason at all. but shame? I really do not understand why.

A great post OnwardandUpward. As you say "It's not our shame".

"Loving mothers who have been cruelly discarded do not need the world to turn on them in scorn and shame them on top of the pain they have already suffered". Beautifully expressed.

People might TRY to shame you or think it's your fault. Shame on THEM for being judgemental and not taking the time to listen and see your side of what happened.

There is shame. It's not our shame, though. Loving mothers who have been cruelly discarded do not need the world to turn on them in scorn and shame them on top of the pain they have already suffered. There is an Estangement charity, so hopefully a lot of stigma will go as people become more educated.

Sometimes an AC is being controlled by their partner/husband/wife results in family estrangement.

I agree that there's no shame in being estranged if you've done nothing to deserve it, or estranging those who have treated you badly.

Saying all that well, obviously there is a lot of shame attached to estrangent by others or society in general, it just doesn't mean you deserve to carry it.

I'm often surprised by how many people are estranged from family members.

Sometimes there is abuse in families.

Sometimes people are just too different and don't get on well.

Sometimes people live far apart and have fallen out of regular contact.

There are probably lots of other reasons I haven't thought of.

I don't think that you should carry shame unless you have actively done something to be ashamed of. In which case, maybe it's not too late to make ammends. The only difference is, if you were reacting to the way others treated you, in which case, they owe you a real and genuine apology first and foremost.

I don't feel ashamed as I know it was the right thing to do but I do feel guilty. I really loved my family even though they showed none to me and its hard to estrange people you love and worry you hurt them. I think that it is a head and heart thing and even though you know that someone is unkind you think that loving them can fix it. It took a long time for me to get it into my head that they are who they are and I needed to walk away or keep letting them hurt me.

Of course you must take your time and think carefully about what to write, if you decide to do so Elless.

As you said in your earlier post you're being ghosted, which is cruel and cowardly. If your son has his reasons it seems rather strange that he can't explain his behaviour to his brother.

I don't agree that contacting him in this way would be putting "the whole responsibility of the estrangement on his hands", it is on his hands. The ball's already in his court as he's refusing to have any communication with you, and all you can do is wait and wonder if there'll be any in the future.

You understandably need and want to know if he has any intention of engaging with you or if he considers his relationship with you to be at an end.

It's totally unacceptable and un necessary to leave you in 'no man's land'. It's a terrible thing to be told by your own child that you're no longer to be a part of their lives but not knowing one way of the other must be unbearable.

If you put the whole responsibility of the estrangement on his hands, it will backfire on you 100%

Thank you for your kind words, I agree it is a good idea to make a point of saying that we are estranged but I will have to put that on him because I then consider that the ball is in his court, I think I will write but I am going to have to think hard about what to say .... will let you know.

I find this idea that it is shameful to be estranged from one's family really strange.

After my father died, aged 55 my mother, who was in the early states of Alzheimers lived alone My sister and I visited regularly but my brother's rarely. One brother would turn up occasionally with his family (4 young children at the time) plus wife and large dog. Mum would have tidied the house and when they left it was in a mess (in her eyes) He just didn't understand.

My other brother was living in London at the time and wouldn't visit her. When he moved back to Wales, he wouldn't phone her or even send a card. When I asked him if he would do that he said he couldn't afford it and I offered to send him some money for cards and postage and the response was that he'd nothing to say.

Neither brother visited when my mother was in a home (for several years) but they did come to her funeral. My sister didn't because she'd fallen out with one of them. I haven't seen either brother since then, more than 40 years ago. I have been in contact with my sister for a few years and now we email each other about once a week.

I've always thought that education can make a difference to relationships with siblings. One brother and I went to grammar schools and the two other siblings went to secondary moderns. My sister didn't see the point of her daughter going to uni.

We also fell out over money. My GM died around the time that we were buying our first house and I asked my dad to lend us 1/2 the deposit as I knew that he'd inherited everything from my GM. Before then my sister was pregnant (not with a partner) and wanted me to announce the pregnancy to my parents. I just couldn't do it. This was back in the 70s when there was still a stigma attached to being an unmarried mother. My parents supported her and were ostracised by some of their neighbours for doing so. To me, supporting her with her baby seemed a difficult thing to do than lending me some money, which my dad could spare.

Over the years, I've realised that it is quite unusual for siblings to remain friendly. You can chose your friends but you can't chose your family.

Why be ashamed?
In this day and age, with many people no longer living on each others doorsteps, let alone in the same village or town, so they rarely see each other apart from perhaps Christmas and Easter added to the fact that many people also have had problems in their past caused often by family members actions that have caused pain and distress that have affected life and cannot be forgotten.
In that case, breaking off contact is often the simpleist thing to do and often that contact stays broken.
If anyone mentions your family, if it makes you feel more comfortable, you can always say that they live some distance away so you don't see each other or even you had a big bust up in the past so broke off contact and have never been bothered about contacting them again.
It's nobody else's business and I bet for everyone that is nosey enough to ask, there will be someone else in the vicinity that will be in the same position as yourself.

Namsnanny

Does your brother know what's gone on between you and his wife Mishy?

Sorry just picked up your question, I don't think so, the last time I saw them was at our dads funeral and didn't put me on the wreath or mention me in the reading, the rest of the family tut tutted and my brother said his wife dealt with the Vicar as he sorted out the other stuff, he would have spoken to her after the event as he hates a scene. As I left, she walked me to the door and said don't come back, I won't miss you. I am thinking of using a mutual mate to talk to our kid on the QT.

I agree with cafeaulait

A word of caution - if your son thinks he already told you the reasons why and you send the letter asking again, it must probably might irritate him

M0nica

Do people talk about family relationships at work, other than in the most passing fashion. Everyone I ever worked with could have been estranged from their family for all I know, well some I knew had family they saw, but only in the mention that they qould be going to a family wedding or visiting, but we didn't compare everybody's story and take notes.

That's my experience too. I am fortunate in that my estrangement was happily resolved. There is an old saying that you can choose your friends but not your family!

Sorry, the bulk of my post was in response to yours Elless.

freedomfromthepast I agree that not only should you tell the person you're estranging that you are estranging them, which our son did, you should also tell the why, which our ES didn't do.

As you've posted, unless you've experienced either being estranged or being the one who estranges, it's impossible "to get it".

The relationship you used to have with your ES mirrors my own as does the way you've described how much he's changed and the part his wife has played.

Ghosting is cruel, heartless and cowardly. You ask what we think you should do, well if I were in your shoes I would write to him, tell him that you can only assume that his silence is because he no longer wants you in his life, and he is in fact estranging you.

I would add that this is the last time you will attempt to correspond with him and will move on with your life as he appears to have done with his own.

I did a similar thing 4 years ago before we moved and sent our ES a 'goodbye' email. I was surprised at how empowering that was, that despite the estrangement not being of our making, I had taken back some control.

I hope that if you decide to do something similar, that despite the heart break, you too will feel that you have taken back some control and be able to move forward with those that you love who love you in return.

Elless, obviously I'm just one opinion and mine might not be the right one. If you do write to your son I would leave out any of the emotive stuff. Not that your feelings are wrong or to be dismissed, it just comes across as emotional blackmail or martyr-ish. If I got something like that from my MIL, nope all the way. I would be more likely to respond to something that says something like, "I know you have your reasons for not contacting me but it would help me to know what they are." Not demanding anything, just an honest, unemotional, accepting question. If others disagree I'm sure they'll weigh in, this is just my perspective as someone who hasn't had contact with my MIL for 15 years. I would respond to something like that.

I never thought of it until reading the last few posts but you are all right, there is a massive difference between ghosting and estrangement and I've just realised that I have been ghosted. Funnily enough over the past few weeks I have been contemplating whether or not to send my (estranged) son another letter (I've sent them before telling him that he's broken my heart and I hope he's happy) letting him know that I accept he does not want me in his life but could I just have an explanation as to what I've done. My middle son has asked him in the past why he doesn't speak to me and he said he can't give an answer. It's so hard (tears starting now) because I don't even think I want contact any more because his wife has changed him so much, his opinions, his outlook even the things he eats and I know we probably wouldn't get on but I love him so much, he used to be my little angel who wouldn't leave my side, we used to spend hours together laughing, playing games, watching films while his Dad worked shifts. What do you think I should do?