The shame of being estranged

Gran64 I'm so sorry for your pain

I can see from his perspective that if he did not go along with her, she may have ended the relationship and stopped him seeing his kids. He probably misses you, but had to make a choice to be there for his kids. It sounds like she wears the trousers, sadly. I am so sad for you.

My DiL has seemed friendly.... but I don't know. My son has not estranged from us before he was with her, so it might be her even though it seems like it's him. He did go for two weeks refusing to talk to us once even though he was living in the same house.

Gran64: I understand how devastating it is for you not to be part of their lives. I don’t understand how sons just go along with their partners and cut their family off. At least sit down together and try to sort whatever the differences out. That takes guts, I think a lot settle for a quiet life. I couldn’t have born hurting my parents. Didn't agree with everything but you let things go, it seems now one blip and you’re out. I suppose
you’ve approached you dil separately and been rejected. All that can be done is make the best life we can, they rejected us not us them, it’s in their hands, I wish I could give you a solution but I can’t. There are days I don’t want to go on, but I do, so I identify very much with your last sentence.?

My son cut me and his brother off entirely just 4 moths after my first and only grandchild was born! His girlfriend had been making our lives hell trying to see the baby etc! We couldn’t do or say anything right. Everything was twisted! She caused so much trouble! No problems with us for 35 years and she came along and within one year had got pregnant and destroyed our family! We begged and pleaded and grovelled. I miss my son and granddaughter and I found out recently there is another granddaughter due next month and I won’t see her either! In the end my son said it was easier as his girlfriend wasn’t going to change and he had to make her happy! It’s been over two years now and I am inconsolable! It’s a living grief and I feel so ashamed that my child would do this to me. Some days I don’t want to go on without them!

It takes time to adjust Knittingnovice.

I hope that simply knowing you're not the only one will be of some comfort, it was for me.

Thank you everybody for taking the time to post comments. I'm a bit overwhelmed by a few difficult things in life at the moment, so I can't properly digest these comments. I hope I can soon, realistically it may not be for a few months.

That's probably true Smileless It's definitely a traumatic loss, like a living bereavement, for sure.

The distance does make it difficult and you're right when you say even the best of sons are "off" sometimes. The fear of it happening again never leaves you I suppose,

Yes I'm so thankful that my son didn't get drawn in by my ES. I think it was a close thing, but the job he has means he mixes with normal people and also it's ideal for him to have the vaccination in his line of work.
That's very difficult with the distance to know if it's that or if there's just something else going on in your son's life. I think even the best sons are "off" sometimes. Particularly with the time difference it must be tricky. I haven't told mine that I was worried we would lose him, but if I did he would probably say that too.

Thank goodness your son didn't get drawn in OnwardandUpward.

Our sons are still in contact and there are times when our DS is a bit 'off' and I do wonder if his brother is stirring again. It's difficult because our DS lives in Aus. but I do think if he wasn't so far away our ES's wife wouldn't tolerate their relationship.

A few years ago I told our DS that there'd been a time when I thought we'd lose him too. He said 'I know mum but I'm not like ..... and I'd never do that to you'.

PS I know my son will have been under intense mental pressure from my ES. Before I admitted to him that I was vaccinated, he was putting me under intense mental strain and threatening to cut me off if I was vaccinated. I managed to keep it quiet at first because I hoped to talk him round and not lose them, but in the end I admitted it because I was under so much pressure by him. I'm not missing the pressure.
The people who are telling him what to do must have been putting a lot of pressure on him to pressure us.

Smileless a few weeks before my son lost contact with his brother (ES) he got a bit shirty with me and I knew it was his brother stirring. It's not like him to get angry towards me so I was devastated and actually thought I'd lost him, but thankfully a few weeks later he got the covid jab and stopped having contact with his brother. Well, I say thankfully. I'm not really happy they lost each other... but I am happy my son no longer has to listen to lies about me or be fed misinformation and garbage.

I'm so glad your son failed too Smileless . Their bitterness probably goes before them like a giant red flag. Thank God!

"I'd rather be thin-skinned than a self-satisfied prig" me too Caleo.

Knitting Novice, yes, I felt shame when I have been rejected by somebody important to me. I don;t believe I can get rid of this unpleasant feeling as I am what my mother called "thin-skinned".

I'd rather be thin- skinned than a self -satisfied prig and I bet you would too!

I just don't get it OnwardandUpward. If someone decides to estrange you, why do they feel the need to turn others against you too? Is it because they have to justify their own behaviour?

Our ES and his wife tried very hard to turn our DS against us. It was a terrible time but thankfully they failed.

Friends of our son's who we'd known since childhood snubbed us but interestingly when we met one couple at a social event about 5 years into our estrangement they were friendly and chatty, just like they used to be.

Two in particular were still Mr. S.'s face book friends and when he retired, sent him lovely messages, wishing us both well and happiness in our new home.

Even when attempts to turn others against appear to have succeeded, the truth seems to come out in the end.

OnwardandUpward I know exactly what you mean. It's really hard to put it into words sometimes and have others really understand how things came to be and how much a mother can hurt you but I read what you said there and I just know how bad things were for you. You should be proud of everything you are doing for yourself. I really hope one day that you find a reconsiliation or if not peace with the situation with your child.

Violetsky I'm so sorry for your children being estranged by their family. It's very sad for them and you. This kind of "divide and conquer" behaviour is something I am sadly quite familiar with in my family background too and it really is toxic. You really cannot win, so it can be best to walk away as you have done. Until quite recently my parents were successful in turning my siblings against me so that they would phone and have a go at me over something I had "done". Except that none of it was ever true. Both my parents seem adept at creating dramas that they star in, but since my therapy I have got better at fighting my own corner (late in life, but better than ever!) and my siblings now seem to see through the nonsense. It has taken me almost a lifetime to fight my own corner, but really I should never have had to. None of us should have to protect ourselves- but we do- from the people who were supposed to protect us and didn't.

A lot of the things that have happened to a lot of us are illogical and confusing.

grannyactivist when I estranged my mother, her side of the family abruptly estranged me. I was not allowed to have a relationship with them until I changed my mind. Its been a very long time, and they haven't reached out to my children. On the one hand, I'm a shame to the family for what I have done and on the other, they have estranged children.

I did not have a close relationship with my family as my mother seemed to work to keep us apart and they were all estranged from each other at times, sometimes decades.

I know it's not exactly the same as your situation but I find it just as illogical and confusing as what your daughter has done.

You're welcome Kandinsky

I wouldn't ever assume to know that I know the full story of anyone's estrangement. I tend to think it's complex and never as simple as the story I might hear suggests. Other than occasionally, I think most estrangements do not happen as a result of a single event but build up over time.

There is no shame in being estranged. It's just a sad situation.

Thank you Smileless2012 - very kind of you x

Sadly there will always be those too willing to judge Kadinsky. You can be judged for feeling guilt and/or shame; you must have done something if you feel this way. You can be judged for not feeling that way; you don't really care/never did.

I've even had it suggested to me here on GN that our ES became involved with an abusive partner because he'd learned during his upbringing that it was normal behaviour. Shocking isn't it, but true.

Never feel that you have to explain what has happened in your life Kandinsky only ever do so because you want too.

It doesn’t matter what the reasons are, some people will judge parents who are estranged from their children. They’ll think you’ve obviously been a bad parent somewhere along the line, or if you haven’t been, that you’ve raised a not very nice child who will cut you off at the drop of a hat. People do judge. That’s why I keep quiet about it.
In my case, I’m estranged from siblings, but people still judge. ( can’t have been much of a family if they’ve fallen out to the point of no longer speaking etc etc …..)

It's very sad that you've lost your D because you're collateral damage as a result of her wanting to absent herself from some members of your extended family grannyactivist.

When my daughter cut off me and my whole extended family, including her siblings, I felt no shame, only puzzlement. Since then I have discovered why she felt she needed to do that and it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my relationship with her. In fact the focus for her was to absent herself from particular members of my extended family and the rest of us were simply ‘collateral damage’. I’m sure she’s regretted the decision many times and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if she’s felt ashamed for cutting us off.

Please don't worry, you haven't upset me Monica I'd have addressed OP directly had I thought anything of the sort. I was just contributing in general. I hope that reassures anyone who needs it.