I don't know if I have been estranged or not !

i am in the same position.
my grandaughters were removed from their home by social services to my care and my daughter decided to leave her husband at the same time.
this was in 2015 and they lived with me.
things went well for several years but then the situation got awkward and my relationship with my daughter broke down. one sunday just before christmas last year my daughter and grandaughters went out and that was the last i saw of them.
my daughter arranged redirection of their post but i wasn't told where the post was redirected.
i have texted my grandaughters to wish them a happy christmas, happy easter and happy birthday but haven't had a response.
i spoke to my son very recently and he tells me he hasn't heard from his sister either.
this has upset me greatly as i am not able to see my grandaughters (19 and 15) or to know how they're getting on.
but i am "leaving the door open" by contacting my grandaughters - i would love to know how they are but have no way of finding out.

When l look back on how I behaved as a young woman towards my mother on a few occasions, l am very saddened. At the time l ghosted her l was about 20 - now I’m in my mid 60s - she had made some flippant remark about the boyfriend I was seeing (to whom I have been happily married to for some 42 years now). At the time I was so angry at her remark that I just dropped out of her life for about 18 months - moving address etc and never phoning or writing - (we lived 100s mile apart). Eventually we did reconcile but never really discussed what had happened. It all seems very petty now and such a waste but at the time my attitude was, l guess, to punish her for being hurtful. My mum died by the time I was 30 and I miss her everyday. Don’t give up on you daughter - she will hopefully come back to you even if you never really find out the reason for the what’s happened.

Has a sibling said something that might have upset her? My sister told me something about my mum and dad that hurt me. I didn’t see her for a couple of weeks while I stewed. Mum rang me to ask me why I haft been to see her so I told her. What had been said was a lie and , my sister told her when tackled about it, said for ‘ a laugh’ ! Mum was furious with her but at least we sorted things out.

I find it quite amazing whe I hear of mature adult children behave in this fashion. Do we continue to cater for all their needs and expectations until the day we die? When they are living their lives in their own way, regardless of our needs, we still have to be available in case they need something from us. We’re you expected to ask permission from your daughter to move, or was your main concern your husband. I’m afraid your daughter is being very selfish and I’m sure she will regret her behaviour if something happened to you.

If your daughter is in touch with sisters and her father, she has made a deliberate choice to ghost you and to hurt you, which she has succeeded in doing. Enough is enough. Imho, tell her + your husband+ other daughter that you have been very hurt by her choice, but that it can' t go on. A last attempt to sort things out by meeting/ call/ letter ...then take control of the situation where you decide what the next steps will be ..how do YOU feel about sending cards and presents to someone who made that choice? How do YOU feel about being ghosted? How do YOU feel about this unfair and unjustified behaviour .....and what would it take for you to feel better ?

Do you talk to your husband about the situation- what is he doing to help deal with this problem. I assume you both moved house, not just you.

I unfortunately know how you feel. They hurt us because they know they can. It's driving me demented. Like others have said, stop sending her things, it proves she's got you dangling on a string & you have to take some dignity back, as hard as it is x

I suppose that siblings can be jealous of each other which could have caused some of the rift. In my experience that has not been the case my eldest daughter is close to my second
child (daughter) there is a 10 year age gap between them and mainly they became closer from the time my middle child was about 14 years old. My eldest daughter is also close to my youngest child although the middle child and youngest child with a fourteen month age gap are estranged from each other.

I continue to be of the opinion that your daughter who is ghosting you should still at least acknowledge and thank-you
for the cards and birthday gifts as it is plain good manners to
offer a thank-you for the thought that you put into doing that. I never like bad manners from my own children and would let them know how childish it is to be like that.

I agree with you V3. No one wants to feel that they are only wanted for money.

My gut feeling is that if you no longer send your middle daughter any birthday or Christmas money, and I fully understand why people are advising this, it will just give her more "reasons" to feel hard done by and fuel her jealousy.

If you want her to eventually return to the family, is the amount involved each year worth withholding? Treat her the same as your other two daughters?

Though if she gets in touch purely to ask for money at any other time, I'd say don't reply...
I think you need to discuss this with your husband though.

I am so sorry, going by friends who have three or four daughters, jealousy does seem to be a problem particularly where there is a large age gap. I think you should continue the birthday and Christmas cards but no further money or advice. Even if your OH can't quite see why you are upset he should stand by you and not communicate for the time being. I hope this has a happy ending for you.

She sounds like she has never got over her jealousy of the younger daughter.

IMO she needs to realise it’s not always about her. Also needs to know that there is enough love to go round all of the sisters in the family.

As others have said make sure she knows you love her, and if she wants to be part of the family again you will welcome her back.

No more financial handouts.

This sounds really sad. I would you send a message saying you miss her and don't know why you have lost touch, would she like to visit in September for a week? how the kids etc.

tickingbird

Abandonment issues? Abdicating your parental responsibility? Sounds as though you’ve spoilt your daughters and that’s entirely your prerogative. However, to expect parents to still be at your beck and call and to arrange their lives around your own when you’re in muddle age is nonsense.

I, personally, would stop sending gifts and money and make it clear her behaviour us unacceptable. In a nutshell, stop pandering to her.

It's only when you are put in this position that you take a really good hard look back on our parenting and yes I have come to the conclusion that I did spoil my daughters. I devoted my life to them to the extent of doing without many things myself. My mother did that for me and I loved her whole heartedly because of it. My middle daughter has probably been the most demanding of my time and resources and was always very jealous of her sisters if she thought they had been given something she hadn't, but I always tried my best for each of them. Your post has got me thinking that maybe she is jealous that my youngest daughter moved over here 3 years ago and lives just down the road from us with our youngest 4 grandchildren ages 6, 4, 3 and 18 months. I don't understand why that would make her ghost me though as I never encouraged that move, in fact I tried to talk her out of it at the time. There is a 12 yr age gap between my middle and youngest daughters so they have not been especially close but do occasionally speak on social media.

Normandygirl I think you should write to your daughter. Don't talk about your feelings and emotion. Say that you are aware that she has chosen to stop communicating with you or seeing you. Say that you would like to maintain contact but that you do not want to keep making contact if this is not what she wants.

Tell her that you would appreciate hearing why she feels she wants no contact at present if and when she feels able to tell you. Tell her you will listen and will act according to her wishes.

Then tell her that this will be your last communication until she feels able to contact you

Then start trying to rebuild your life. Don't ask her siblings about her and if and when you feel able to, tell them not to report

I am sorry that you are going through this ghosting without explanation

What I don't understand is why your daughter appears to hold you, her mother, solely responsible for the 'abandonment'. Surely, as a long standing married couple the decision to move to France was made jointly.
Why has she singled you out for 'the treatment', yet has contact with her father? You have my sympathy. What a painful situation you find yourself in.

Abandonment issues? Abdicating your parental responsibility? Sounds as though you’ve spoilt your daughters and that’s entirely your prerogative. However, to expect parents to still be at your beck and call and to arrange their lives around your own when you’re in muddle age is nonsense.

I, personally, would stop sending gifts and money and make it clear her behaviour us unacceptable. In a nutshell, stop pandering to her.

I'm sorry that you are experiencing this Normandygirl. Estrangement is a terrible thing to live but IMO being ghosted, which your D is doing even worse.

A woman who was in her late 30's at the time of your move, is unable to forgive you for moving away 10 years ago. It's outrageous and even more outrageous that she continues to accept financial gifts and assistance when she wants too.

It's time you freed yourself from the limbo you are in. In your position I would a) write to her about how long it's been since you've been in contact and tell her you love and miss here, but if she doesn't respond you'll sadly have to conclude that she no longer wants you in her life, or b). Don't contact her apart from sending a birthday and Christmas card but with no financial gift, and refuse any more financial support when she asks for it. If she asks you why then you can tell her, if she doesn't, just leave her to it.

Sodapop is spot on. You don't deserve be treated this way and it's about time your D started behaving like an adult.

Just to add, my husband's attitude is don't fret, she will get in touch when she needs you for something, but then he wasn't a very " hands on " father as he was working abroad a lot when they were young and maybe doesn't get the strong bond that I thought I had with her. I think he feels annoyed by her behaviour because he sees how upset I am but has the attitude that if she has decided that she doesn't want to communicate with me and refuses to say why, then we just have to accept it and get on with our lives. He doesn't want to play the " I'm upset with you and you have got to guess why" game. I just want my daughter in my life again.
Thankyou to all the posters who have suggested various remedies including letter writing etc, I will try this but up to now cards and e mails with loving messages have not worked but who knows. I don't want to give up on her without a fight!

Normandygirl It is sad when you are seemingly rejected by an AC and often they give no real explanation to the root cause of the problem, The hurt is somewhat intensified when you are told by other family members their thoughts on why a sibling is behaving as they are, and even the contact your daughter has with your sister and not you also is upsetting.
I do think your gut feeling is right and as it has been 2 years since you have seen your daughter the message in that says quite a bit. I would just ask has that daughter got children and if so is there communication/contact with them?
As you travel back every six weeks to see everyone maybe you could try sending a letter to ask for some response from her and if still nothing I would fully consider putting a stop to birthday money and gifts particularly as there is no acknowledgement for them. Talk to your husband also and if her only contact to him is for money or legal help then that perhaps should be withdrawn unless he knows exactly what the money is for but even so why should she be no contact but want financial handouts from you?
I know how hurtful her behaviour is but going on what you say you have no reason to feel guilty you have retired to Normandy as planned you did not abandon any of your children and you have not abdicated your parental responsibilities, your children are adults now and TBH we do
not have to ask our AC if we are able to live our lives how we want to live them. Give your daughter her options but make sure you set your own boundaries she is living her own life so
do not allow her to make you feel you are in the wrong.

I certainly have enough with my own three children and have certainly encountered the estrangement/silent do not want to know you treatment and for me all I can say is live your life because no one else does it for you.
Good luck.

I was so cross to read this Normandygirl your daughter is being very selfish and entitled in my opinion. To take money and advice as she does whilst ignoring you is totally unacceptable.
Time she got over her ' abandonment issues' and started behaving like a responsible adult. You don't deserve to be treated like this.

Snap. If you’re not told what you have done how can you put things right. I personally would write and say you know she’s avoiding you but don’t know why and are anxious to put things right. Leave it then up to her. It is very bad not to get in touch with her father going through cancer treatment, She sounds thoroughly self centred and entitled and the money giving giving needs to stop, better giving it to a charity, she’s a nerve asking, when she doesn’t make sure you are both ok, I know how hurtful it is and we ask ourselves why, sometimes it’s just them.

We had a holiday home in Normandy, France for a number of years and it was always our intention to retire here eventually. All my daughters were aware of this and the house was used by all of them and our grandchildren for many happy holidays. For the first few years they all still came over for holidays and Christmas and we had our grandchildren over for their school holidays as their parents were working. We collected them and brought them back etc. The children of my two older daughters are all at Uni now so naturally we don't see them much.
We travel back every 6 weeks to see everyone especially my mum who lives with my sister. but for the last few visits before the pandemic my middle daughter made it very obvious that she didn't want to see us, not being at home when we called round even though we had made previous arrangements. not coming to meals out, not making any contact whilst we were there etc. Everyone told me that she was just very busy with her job and I accepted that as the reason but in my gut I felt it was more than that. When I have asked my eldest daughter if she knew what was wrong she said that she thought it was "abandonment issues" and that I was " abdicating my parental responsibilities".
As my daughters are well into their 40's and settled into lovely homes [ which we helped with] good jobs and their own children almost off their hands, I am at a loss to know what " parental responsibilities" I am failing at.

Is it possible to visit her? Don't tell her you are going but have some questions and statements ready. Be prepared for an argument or the door being shut in your face. When you see her I think you'll know if it's worth pursuing this relationship. I do feel that your DH is letting you down a bit by being in contact separately - it should be both of you or neither of you I think - but I can see that you both might want to keep this link to her open. Maybe when she contacts him for help he could say 'ring your Mum first'.

It sounds very odd, I feel for you I really do, surely there’s more to it than you moving away 10 years ago it sounds very extreme to not forgive you over that, you can move where you want can’t you! Sad to hear when her father was diagnosed with cancer she didn’t make contact either that’s very hurtful, so she accepts money and gifts from you without a word of thanks, and only contacts when she wants money from your husband and legal advice, sounds very selfish, I hope you can get this sorted normandygirl, she sounds very resentful and bitter