Why do I torture myself

Obviously I had never heard the term before but I am guessing it's used in situations where mothers can't understand their sons now put another woman first so the new woman in their sons life is blamed instead of understanding its a natural/normal progression.

Some Mils, even when their sons have wives and children, expect their sons to be at their beck and call, my drunken MIL was like that and didn't understand that her son had people at home he was responsible for and wanted to spend spare time with at home and couldn't just drop everything and come running and that was my fault apparently.

This is it, is it not? "Men have a mind of their own, get away with whatever they do that others dont like and the female partner is often blamed for it"

Men do as they please, but when the man's mum is annoyed d.i.l. is blamed for not pleasing to her m.i.l.

Hold your ds responsible to your happiness.

I see it as a sarcastic term, funny to me.
If women had magical vaginas, husbands and partners would do what we asked them to, even remind them we are not their managers (emotional workload)!

So no, men have a mind of their own, get away with whatever they do that others dont like and the female partner is often blamed for it.

It's a horrible term isn't it Allsorts, more insulting to men than the women it's supposedly aimed at.

Allsorts

I’ve just read tge quote “ magical vagina” who dreams this nonsense up?

Women who blame other “new” women when the menfolk don’t do what the first women want them to.

Ellese, I understand how hard it must be without put your sons support, know how we all love our children. He doesn’t know you are having an operation and obviously you wouldn’t get in touch to guilt trip him. Could you not send birthday cards to them all on their big day, put a nice message in his, not asking to see him, just that he’s always in your heart and you love him, maybe one day he will think of your words and realise he cares for you. I do hope so, It never worked for me, but I know if another who it did.

I’ve just read tge quote “ magical vagina” who dreams this nonsense up?

OnwardandUpward, I've been reading what you say on the support thread and I'm so sorry you have that sort of mother and are now estranged with your son.

I've also done therapy because I know it's affected me a great deal. I also unknowingly at the time exposed my children to all of it because even though I didn't like how she treated me on the surface, underneath I felt I deserved to be treated badly, I didn't have any knowledge or understanding of the fact that, mothers can be abusive, controlling, neglectful and enmeshed. I thought I wasn't loved because I didn't deserve to be. My fault.

I've struggled with anxiety, depression and illness my whole life and doing so as a mother myself is terrifying. I didn't know how much I was impacted by my upbringing until I walked away from it.

My mother told me so many times that she didn't like me that now my biggest fear is one day my children won't like me. Not estrangement, I'd rather my children walked away from me than simply put up with me, to be a chore, unlike and unwanted again.

I just hope as you say that personal growth and willingness to change will get me there, not just where I am loved and wanted but where I am able to feel all the time that I deserve to be.

I totally agree OnwardandUpward that it's important to own your truth and to be allowed to do so.

It's good to know that you're benefiting from therapy and I hope that you continue to do so. As you say, "the mother-child relationship is such an important one", which it makes it so hard for the child whose mother abused them.

I'm so sorry this has been your experience.

Ive had negative comments too. Something I struggle with a lot is that my Mother is not the loving, kind and supportive mother that others know. I do have minimal contact with her, but to this day my I'm affected by the way she treated me. It almost seems taboo and "ungrateful" to say you have issue with your upbringing, yet its important to own your truth.

I am currently in therapy. Nothing can really heal the scars of an abused past, but you can learn ways of coping. I am not now the scapegoat. I have a good understanding of her mental health and what made her act the way she did. I wish that she would have been mentally and emotionally healthy before having a child she could not cope with who she then blamed for everything.

It shouldn't be taboo, but the mother-child relationship is such an important one that if you had a damaging one it can set you up for life in painful ways. There are ways you can undo it, but it involves Personal Growth and willingness to change.

Not here though Violetsky as you're relatively new, but I've had them here on GN so I know exactly how you feel.

Whether it needed to be said or I just needed to say it, I'm not responsible for the estrangement with my mother, she is.

It is a relief that we actually do agree there Smileless2012

I've had negative comments in the past which were incredibly painful as I wasn't as confident then as I am now.

No argument Violetsky; a disagreement about the interpretation and content of my posts which previous experience here on GN has shown me is best dealt with at the time, before it escalates.

Smileless2012 I'm really not sure what the right thing to say here is. I'm not saying you have said anything at all. However, it feels like we are in an argument. I don't think either of us would want to be having an argument rather than just listening to each others thoughts and experiences?

Perhaps we can start over?

I don't understand why you'd have any reason to be upset with me Violetsky as I have never said that going no contact or instigating estrangement is inherently abusive, as all of my posts on this thread attest too.

Discodancer I'm really not upset with Smileless2012 it's an emotive topic, I just wanted to ensure that anyone reading would understand what I was saying.

We had come from talking about whether no contact or estrangement is inherently abusive and I'm aware its going to be tricky having these discussions from different experiences.

A good example DiscoDancer

I’ve often thought about the word ‘ responsible’ It definitely has two meanings.

I remember a sketch in ‘ The Young Ones’ once, where Rick asks Mike if he’s ‘ responsible’ for doing something. Can’t remember what it was, but was negative. Mike’s reply was something like “ yeah, I like to think I’m responsible”, as in very mature.

Sorry to hi jack the thread, but reading the posts, it is clear to me what you mean Violetsky, but I also know Smileless wouldn’t have meant anything derogatory.

That's OK thanks Violetsky I'm good.

Smileless2012 I have been sharing my thoughts quite honestly throughout this conversation. If you haven't understood something or want to know what I am thinking, just ask.

Your interpretation of my post was not correct *Violetsky" if you think I said you were responsible for causing your mother hurt by estranging her.

I didn't say anything of the kind.

Well I suppose in that case I'm just a responsible adult trusted to make the right decision for myself and my children.

I suppose so yes. I'm not sure anyone suggested otherwise.

Well I suppose in that case I'm just a responsible adult trusted to make the right decision for myself and my children.

In abuse scenarios anyone who walks away has no responsibility for how the person they walk away from feels or the impact it has on any other members of the family. That's on the person who caused the estrangement, the abuser.

Absolutely! I agree, in an abuse scenario.

My original comment was that the person who makes the decision to estrange is responsible for their own decision to estrange, which is not the same as responsible for the estrangement. And that does not make them responsible for the experiences/behaviours/ reasons for making that decision to estrange.

I hope that makes sense. I'll leave it there.

I see it like this Madgran77

If I kicked a ball and it smashed a window, I would be responsible.

So if kicking a ball is abuse and the smashed window, the broken relatiinship in the scenario with my mum, I was the ball.

That doesn't mean I'm not responsible for my actions and behaviour while we were in a relationship or in the time that led to estrangement.

In abuse scenarios anyone who walks away has no responsibility for how the person they walk away from feels or the impact it has on any other members of the family. That's on the person who caused the estrangement, the abuser.