Toxic Mother

All good advice. So sorry for your pain Gampsy. I hope you find a way that helps. If you can give her a little attention and be ready to walk away if she becomes abusive that will be best for your healing. You can always tell her why you're leaving, so she learns that she has to behave if she wants a longer visit. I doubt she will really change (She will likely bite her lip and inwardly seethe while trying to behave!) but there's no reason why you should endure abuse and it will be good to take back the control.

A good suggestion from Chewbacca to consider maddy. It is so hard for you I am sure ...but as Smileless says there is always next time

Maddyone

You have to uncondition yourself if you decide to stop the abuse and put yourself first

Your mother will not be happy no matter what you do for her, even if you do everything she asks you to.

You have a you problem - you can fix it!

Hithere you are so right when you say "Your Mother will not be happy whatever you do"!

I would say in this instance "You can't please everyone- so please yourself! At least then SOMEONE will be happy!"

VioletSky excellent advice thank you

Thank you to everyone who has responded. There is some very good advice. The only difficulty is acting on it after a lifetime of difficulties. I know I should have set boundaries years ago when horrible things were said to myself or the children. I suspect Gampsy is in the same position. I don’t know about Gampsy’s mother, but mine blew hot and cold. She wasn’t permanently unkind or rude, but she was very regularly and it’s my own fault for accepting the better times and ignoring the rudeness or unpleasantness. I didn’t/couldn’t stand up to her, I think it’s the same for Gampsy. I even pretended she was a normal mother, I was ashamed of the things she said and did. I focused on the normal things whilst continually questioning to my husband ‘how can a mother act like this?’
Anyway both myself and Gampsy have to start to put some boundaries in place now. Better late than never. It is hard because you have to unlearn learnt behaviour. And because the mothers are very elderly, Gampsy’s in her eighties and mine nearly 94, it is difficult.
Some of the things have been awful. False accusations of theft from her, saying my husband would have made a good Nazi, saying my children would have made good Nazi children because they were all very blond, telling my husband he shouldn’t buy gifts for me, pacing out the size of my living room in my new house and telling me someone else’s she knew was bigger (as if I cared, it wasn’t a competition) it was said to deflate me because I liked our new house, and so on, and so on. These horrible things still haunt me, and there were more.
Thank you for reading and your very good advice.

I’m still ashamed of admitting she said these things, I have never written them down before, and only told a very small number of close friends.

Maddyone

Of course change is hard! Been there done that.

The worst is changing something the first time, the anxiety, cold sweat, guilt, etc is unbelievable.
It gets so much easier later, as you realize you are an adult and what can your mother do, ground you without dinner?

Turn off your phone, put it in do not disturb or silent, get a new hobby you like to distract yourself, etc.

It most probably gets worse in the beginning as your mother realizes you are no longer under her thumb.

No matter what, dont cave. Continue with your boundaries, be consistent.
Be rational and analyze if what she is asking you to do is reasonable.
It doesn't matter she is 94, that she is your mother, etc. - dont let your heart call you back into the programming you have been indoctrinated

Think if you would allow the same behaviour from a friend, or strangers. DNA does not get a free pass to abuse as they wish

Maddyone I know exactly what you mean. My mum has said so many negative things to me over the years. Every meal she came to, she would criticise an aspect of it. I would make cakes etc and take her some and there was always something wrong with it. The first Christmas in my new house she walked in and the only thing she could say was the kitchen worktops were cluttered. I had had the whole house redecorated and new flooring down and bought lovely new furniture! I just stopped. I no longer give her any home baking. I don't invite her to my house. At family events I steer clear and talk to the others. I disengaged and it's made such a difference to my life. I visit once a week and I still get that sick feeling before I go in but things are better for me.

Ah, yes the parent that LOVES insecure children BECAUSE they keep trying harder to get approval. One of my parents often comments that one of my siblings is "so insecure", but I have come to realise that it's because she was MADE that way and kept that way by all the constant comparisons.

When I was younger there were many comparisions made about how my friends were nicer/more intelligent/richer. As I have got older I have got better at tuning them out and (unlike one of my siblings) I have not competed, but rather bowed out. I accept that I will never be "enough" for someone who can never see the good in me. I have no need to compete for approval that will never come.

The shame is not yours maddyone it's your mother's. Good advice from Hithere whose been through it so I hope you'll take what she's said on board.

I'm glad that you've found ways of coping Grandmabatty but so sorry that you have also had to experience this.

for all of you who didn't/don't have the mum's you deserved.

maddyone you have nothing to be embarassed about, it's a reflection of her not you.

Yes it's totally your Mother's shame Maddyone It's definitely that she's trying to project her failures onto you. It's a narc thing to do that (projection)

All the time she succeeds in making you feel deficient, you will try harder and harder to please (and still be unsuccessful) which by the way will also be "your fault". If you can start to see yourself as ENOUGH and see that she has a problem, you can learn ways of dealing with her and start to heal.

to all of you.

smileless thank you. She tried it once with my daughter when she told her that the tiramisu she had made was "lacking". Dd and her boyfriend, now sil absolutely 'ripped her knitting' a well known phrase for calling her out! They continue to ask if the meal is 'lacking' in some way to this day. Mum has never repeated it. ?

? thats awesome GrandmaBatty My husband had a stepmum who was quite acidic, but he quickly learned comebacks that she respected. They went on to have a good relationship. Where I am lacking is that I don't have good comebacks and get floored easily by nasty comments. Somehow I need to get stronger.

What a great response Grandmabatty a good example of how to handle a situation like that.

It's difficult if 'good comebacks' don't come easily OnwardandUpward. It might be an idea before meeting up with someone who has a history of making nasty comments, to think of possible scenarios and responses in advance.

By strange co-incidence, a sub plot of the book I am reading at the moment is about a daughter's relationship with her Mother who just cannot ever bring herself to praise her daughter, who always finds her wanting, and this part of it jumped out;
She called three more times that afternoon. But I held my ground, refusing to give anything away. Because I had also reached the conclusion that, as I could never win my Mother's approval, it was useless trying to pursue it. And the very fact that I was no longer chasing her love rendered her powerless over me

State of the Union by Douglas Kennedy

Good advice for us all Gill whatever our estrangement situation may be. I can't say this often enough, so I'll say it again 'the only way to win the game is to stop playing'.

Thanks Smileless2012, I thought it a pertinent quote, especially the last line. I hope it helps some. A good book by the way

My mother very rarely gave my sister and I any praise, but often praised the achievements of others. I have often wondered why others were worthy of praise, but we weren’t. She behaved in a similar way with her grandchildren, but I think they have had marginally more approval than we had. She always notices the negative though.
It’s true that we need to set certain boundaries and then live by them. I have spent too many years appeasing my mother, and I’ve decided to stop. It’s very hard, I feel guilty when I don’t visit every day, but I just have to live with that.

I've commented on my mum earlier. Her gifts always come with strings, not ribbon. At family breakfast on Sunday which she insists on paying for, she berated me for having a second coffee and then said she didn't. She then turned on my son and called him fat and told him he was going grey. He's certainly not fat and is 35 years old. I suspect that she realises she's lost control over me but thinks she can get at me by insulting my children. At the same time she was sugary sweet to two family friends who she invited. She's something else!?

Grandmabatty, do you think we share the same mother?

maddyone, I wouldn't wish her on anyone else!

I understand that Grandmabatty. The trouble is that these kind of mothers make so many comments along the way, and although they seem not to be too bad on their own, cumulatively they add up and become very toxic.
It’s interesting that this thread started by Gampsy is the third thread about difficult mothers in about three weeks. A poster started one about her demanding mother first, then I started one entitled Three Elderly Parents, and now this one, and what I’ve learned through reading them is that there are many very difficult mothers in the generation above ours. Maybe the way they were brought up, or living through the war, or maybe they are just like that, but the numbers of posters who have gone on to the threads saying how difficult their mothers are gives me cause to wonder. My father was a lovely man, but my mother was known in the family for her difficult behaviour and her determination to have her own way.

I have always had the same sort of relationship many of you describe with my mother.As you say maddyone there seem to be a lot of them about.I could have written the last sentence in your last post about my own parents.

I had started trying to emotionally distance myself a couple of months ago as the behaviours were getting increasingly hard to deal with.Your post yesterday at 18.59 Grandmabatty sounds very familiar.

Just over a week ago,after a difficult couple of weeks when my lovely FIL died I received a troubling health diagnosis.I was pretty devastated and had a lot of hospital appointments to sort out.The day after receiving this news I was meant to visit my mum.I telephoned to say I wouldn’t be going and why and all she took from the call was that I wouldn’t be going to see her.She then phoned various family members to list my failings?‍♀️The dr has told me I need to reduce the stress in my life.This health diagnosis has been the wake up call I need.I have finally put boundaries in place and am determined to stick to them.Please put yourselves first and look after your health.