Toxic Mother

I very seldom answer posts but this thread has really upset me! I am a 72 year old mother and grandmother; I have six children (one of whom has estranged herself) and seven grandchildren.....I haven't seen any of them for a very long time as I live in a remote area and they are all beavering away in the Metropolis but we remain in contact regularly and I am so grateful that, in their own way, they still care. I lost my own mother to cancer when I was seventeen and I know, without a shadow of doubt, that I would have been a better mother myself if I had had her love and support.
All I want to say is that every situation is unique to the individuals concerned and I have learned over the years that nothing is ever as cut and dried as it might seem so I make no judgements...estrangement may be the only way for some but please never forget that you have your life because your mother gave birth to you... and the majority of those mothers did their very best within the confines of their own abilities, personal circumstances and their position in history.
There are many of us aging mothers who look back with regret and wish we had acted differently at certain times in our past, who struggle to accept that the world today is so very different from the one we knew and who find contemporary attitudes and expectations rather bewildering. Sometimes a comment made in all innocence is jumped upon as being selfish or a non recognition that our children are now fully grown adults and no longer receptive to our out of date efforts to communicate; in addition, many of us have lost our partners and have no one to act as a sounding board to help us keep things in perspective.....we would die rather than admit it, but fear and loneliness are not the best counsellors!
So, PLEASE try occasionally to put yourself in your mother's ill-fitting shoes and perhaps you may find the necessary patience and fortitude to use whatever method works for you to have a relationship whilst you still can.
Take care.

"I think her personality was already difficult and being a Holocaust survivor made it worse"

Well I'm glad that you were able to feel sorry for when you discovered this and managed to maintain your relationship with your "toxic and narcissistic mother" to ensure that she didn't disinherit you Ramblingrose

Grey rock is a great tool - takes a lot of energy and mental energy to keep it up

You also have to evaluate why you allow such a toxic person in your life just because she is your mother.

chris8888

She is in her 80s, probably got some dementia going on, sad time to cut ties.

Although it sounds like she has always been this way

PS I can only imagine what your poor Dad went through - judging by how her behaviour has escalated since his death. It must have been hell.

I have a cousin whose mother (my aunt) was exactly as you describe. She desperately wanted to walk away from her (her two brothers visited occasionally to placate Mum but left most of the caring to my cousin). She felt guilty and still longed for her mother's appreciation (the love she didn't get when she was a child). In the end she found a wonderful counsellor who helped her to detach both physically and psychologically from a very damaging relationship. With her husband's support, she moved 200 miles away from her mother and left her to it. Interestingly, both brothers tried to move contact with their mother onto their wives who refused. Yes, she was left without any support and it forced her to face the result of her awful behaviour (which of course she still blamed on others) and she had to move into supported housing, which lifted the burden entirely off her family. Move away, one step at a time. Yes, try the Grey Rock technique. Find yourself a counsellor and have weekly sessions until you can challenge and change the beliefs that are keeping you "hooked" onto your mother (including the guilt); if needs be move away. In the meantime, if she gives you the silent treatment let her - maybe saying something like "when you need something, ring me; until then, I'll leave you to it". You have to show her that she has no power over you - otherwise you're just handing her the rod to beat you with.

Yes, the mother who is causing you so much emotional pain undoubtedly has NPD, Narcissistic Personality Disorder..
You are being saint like in your devotion, but nothing you do or say will ever change her.
In a terrible way, she is also condemned to live out her days locked into a cage of her own emotional dynamic.
Narcissists are unable to experience any true emotion, are unable to empathise, and as you know, manipulate, control and undermine you endlessly, not to mention gas lighting too.
You are, too sadly for words, her victim, whom she needs in order to justify her own existence.
Your choice to stick by her as she ages is contrary to all professional advice.
The Grey Rock treatment requires superhuman energy to carry out, no doubt about that.
I speak from bitter, lifelong experience of a long marriage to a man with this mental illness.
Not only did I suffer from coercive control and abuse throughout the marriage for almost thirty years, after divorcing in order not to become ill myself, and continue to work and support our children, there followed 22 years of deep depression for six months of every year.
I now understand that this was a form of Complex PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
Now in my early seventies, I have only been free of depression for the last two years and eight months.
I have paid a very heavy price for this relationship. My ex-husband died recently. His death has thrown into focus the suffering and toll his narcissism took on the whole of my life.
We

Knowing your mother is toxic is one thing but it is difficult to put head over heart and just walk away. As you have put up with this treatment for many, many years, she has no doubt created many unwarranted feelings of guilt within you and it is very difficult to avoid such feelings even when you know you have every right to feel like leaving her to get on with it.

I wonder if the strategies that VioletSky suggests might work for you, ie not engaging with her mind games and shutting down any conversations that are intended to hurt you or goad you into retaliation. It might be worth a try, but if you feel you are at the end of your tether with her behaviour then I think you have every right to discontinue contact or at least cut it to a bare minimum.

Grey Rock, I’ve never heard of this.
I’d reduce my visits to once a week to drop off groceries. One very short phone call no more than 5 mins each week. (Oh there’s someone at the door! Or you need the lavatory)
I’d certainly not go into her home Covid is a good reason.
Garden visits are still common in our area. Few go into others homes and I’m not sure if this is only in the South of England. Our COVID numbers are rising.
Keep in touch in case she dies, if you loose contact you will feel guilty.
I’m now going to read Grey Rock.
I do hope I never get to the stage my children feel like this.
Best wishes and may you have the strength to cope with your mum.

I walked away from both my parents when I was 30, I’m 79 now.
It was tough at first but I had the support of family members. They didn’t make much effort to reconcile, I didn’t want them in my life, too toxic.
I’ve never regretted it, it was their loss, they missed out on my happiness , grandchildren etc.

She is in her 80s, probably got some dementia going on, sad time to cut ties.

I suspect you have no idea what it would be like to have 'control of your own life', so it is likely you are not taking it back. If you jettison your mother, you will perhaps for the first time experience control. I had a mother much like yours. She threatened suicide and in the end actually attempted suicide which led to her admission into a care home on psychological grounds. She got no help with what was, I now realise, a narcissistic personality disorder, and died a few months later of Covid. For her that would have been a release, because thankfully she was well cared for in hospital. I suffered terribly from her inablility to love anyone other than herself and it was nothing more than a relief when she died. But it was a tragedy she never got help when she was young. She had an unhappy childhood herself, thanks to a depressive and moody mother. Her mother was in turn damaged by the death of her own mother (my great grandmother) when she was 7. So each of us is at the mercy of our childhoods and without help it is so difficult for many of us to be good parents. My sister had nothing to do with her at the end of her life, leaving me entirely responsible for organising her care and funeral. I am now in the same situation with my dad, who divorced mum when they were 70 and who my sister is also estranged from. I recognise the Grey Rock because my sister treats me like that. I never knew it was a recognised strategy. I have never judged her but I guess she feels uncomfortable in the knowledge that I (and my amazingly kind husband) have been left alone with all the responsibility for aging parents so I guess she feels better with her grey rock techniques. Good luck. I hope that you and your brother are able to agree a strategy so that one of you is not left holding the can like I have been.

Cut the ties now. My Mum sounds like your Mum's twin. I didn't walk away, I didn't cut contact, regularly drove 150 miles to care for her, lived with her for 6 months straight and this went on for 7 years. At no point was I thanked, and nearly lost my marriage- as you say if she was Mum you'd have broken ties long ago. Do it for your sanity and good luck xx

Have you ever heard of borderline personality disorder?
Your mum’s behaviour has a lot of the traits of that.
Of course as a disclaimer, not all borderlines are the same or as bad as your mum sounds.
It usually stems from a bad childhood. I’m not excusing her at all , she could have looked at herself and got help, but either didn’t want it or didn’t want to put in the work to change.
If you can walk away and not torment yourself with recriminations when she dies, then walk away .
We have only this life, this time, and living with her toxic influence another moment is maybe a moment too long.
Xx

I’d like to hear her side of the story before I comment.

Quit now! I have no idea of your age but you need to take back control of your life! You deserve it!
Your mum is manipulative, rude, disrespectful and unkind! Do you really need her in your life? I suspect not!
You know you have been a good daughter but enough is enough! Give your time and emotions to those who appreciate them plus care about you! Good luck

You must do what is best for your health and sanity. After all, you have your own family to be there for - and I am sure you wouldn't treat any of them like that. I wouldn't take that cr*p from anyone, not even my mother.

My father was the problem in our house, although there was a lot of problems with sisters too. I have 3 sisters, 2 of which I haven't had contact with in 10 years and the 3 of them didn't attend my father's funeral and nor did their children.
He was a bully, although I was the youngest and got off a little lighter, but my older sisters detested him. He huffed like a child, said he was always ill looking sympathy and his temper was horrendous, a leather belt was used for years as punishment. To people outside he was a lovely man, inside was a different matter. My sisters all left, well he told one to get out cos she stuck up for my mum who he treated terribly for years and my sister would of been left homeless only for her friend taking her in, he didn't care.
Walk away, you have tried for years and years with no thanks and she will end up needing you more than you will need her. She is just attention seeking in the nastiest way and don't let her upset you and your brother anymore. Take care.
You can choose your friends, but not your family.

My lovely I don’t know the answer to this horrible situation. There’s lots of good advice given in this thread, but I just wanted to send you a hug and ask you to concentrate on your family who obviously love you to bits. Take care of yourself first and remember you deserve peace and quiet. Xoxoxoxox

Another one here who had a toxic and narcissistic mother.

I think her personality was already difficult and that being a Holocaust survivor made it worse.

I felt sorry for her after realising this.

I couldn't cut her off or she'd have disinherited me and I would have been unable to help my children financially.

If you don't need anything from her cut her out of your life and have some peace.

I had this problem for years, and it does wear you down. In the last few years of my mother's life, she came under the influence of another woman, who was a man-hater (due to abuse in her own early life). Sadly this person was very bitter, and encouraged my mother to be as nasty as she was. Unfortunately, this woman professed to be religious, while being a politician for the National Front, and had my mother take lessons with a view to becoming a Roman Catholic (my mother had never gone to Church). When my mother died, this supposed friend was named as Executrix in her Will, and organised the Funeral, borrowing money from an Uncle of ours, who had just lost his wife (my mother's younger sister). I had to pay that back.
While our relationship with mother had always been fraught - it was a very sad end for all concerned.
I should have walked away years before and saved myself (and others) a lot of heartache!

Gampsy it sounds as if your mother is the same as mine. After many many years of hurt, which destroyed my confidence, I finally gave up after she started saying things about DH which were not true and very hurtful. We ignored them at first but the final straw was when she wrote to MIL telling her what a dreadful son she had. People with caring mothers did not understand how I could walk away but it was such a relief to know I would no longer receive the most hateful phone calls and letters. She died 4 years later but, sadly, my first reaction was that she could not hurt me anymore. At her funeral my aunt, her sister, told me my mother had always been like that all her life but reassured me I could not have done anymore than I did.
Step away and look after yourself. You don't deserve the treatment you have been receiving.

If you do what you've always done.
You'll get what you've always got.

Gampsy, you said "*I’m a very emotional person who suffers with guilt even over small issues*" - ever thought who might have been responsible for you being that way (I'm assuming ever since you were a child)? If you continue as you have been doing she will have 'won'. As others here have suggested perhaps 'tough love' will indeed be the answer.

Have been reading this thread. Lots of good advice here, Gampsy. Am sending a huge hug and wishing you the strength to deal with it all. Good luck.