Toxic Mother

I wish I'd read a thread like this while she was still alive.

I can empathise with you as I had an emotionally abusive mother and she ruined my childhood and made me lose any bit of self esteem I had.
I won’t go into everything she did as I don’t want to hijack your post, but when she ignored my three year old on the street calling her it was the final straw, I new she was toxic in my life and I wasn’t going to let her do it to my children, she never sent the children or me as much as a birthday card.
I moved away from her and didn’t speak to her for forty years I didn’t know she had died until a year after her death as she had told family I wasn’t to know.
I think just because someone gave birth to you doesn’t make them a mother, sadly I didn’t even shed a tear for her when I found out she died, she upset my children and that was the end for me.

If she’s been like that for 30 years makes me wonder if all this kicked in around the menopause and that she might be depressed...?
That said unlikely you’ll be able to influence her to see a dr at her age, and as such sadly she’s not likely to change especially given her age.
Your life is precious, start to live it. Should she need additional support going forward you can enlist the help of “carers” and probably be eligible to claim attendance allowance which would go towards funding and help alleviate any guilt you may feel too.
Sounds like you’re totally taken for granted and your efforts unappreciated. It’s time to live and enjoy your life.

Gampsy

Sadly my Mum’s condition isn’t illness, depression or any other kind of disorder. It’s always a well timed, targeted take down undertaken in a cold and emotionless manner which ironically almost gives her pleasure. Having fallen out with me, she has phoned my sister in law up to tell her that it’s all her fault. Honestly, I give up.

Guilt is extremely damaging and, unfortunately, so many people are affected. Some people know how to use it as a weapon. I'm afraid I can't recommend any link or book, but maybe you should consider some counselling for yourself.

My own mother was the same. In some ways, she hadn't had an easy life, but she tried to manipulate and dominate her children by emotional blackmail. I felt that something had been lifted from my shoulders when she died.

My mother was the similar but my younger brother could do no wrong he robbed her blind but he was lovely I did all the cleaning shopping but I was the bad one ........ Walk away I did glad I did dont regret it.
Look after yourself no one else will

I had similar situation with aunt. A friend told me to wash my hands of her and I did! It's the best thing I have ever done,I'm free!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dear Gampsy, I have never replied to any posts on this site, but read them often with interest and compassion

Your post really struck a chord with me, you could be describing my sister whom I am currently (sadly) estranged from ... her decision (but best for my sanity)

I believe your mother (and my sister) are narcissists BUT because of your mothers age I do not think you should cut all ties as I think the guilt would be unbearable.

VioletSky's advice of Grey Rock is excellent, I have done lots of research because of my sister and this is supposedly very good.

I don't think you will ever change your mother but accepting her behaviour and keeping your emotions at arms length.

If my sister ever chooses to speak to me again I will always keep an emotional distance from her.

There is a forum on Facebook Narcissist Abuse Support Group which has lots of good advice too

Wishing you lots of luck and peace of mind xx

grannygranby I think that your words are harsh and unkind. I don’t think the op or other posters are “demonising their mothers” at all. Some mothers are manipulative and emotionally abusive. My mother was lovely and my mil while she is a dominating and rather unlikeable piece of work I keep up a relationship with, I should have put better boundaries into our relationship, but there we are. However, these are not the kind of mothers being discussed here. These are the type of mothers that are emotionally abusive, a different kettle of fish altogether.

How awful, she’s not a mother never has been …
a mother doesn’t treat her children like this
Cut all ties and never look back …
I think deep down you know you’ve done all you can do

Gampsy I have no experience of your situation. It must be awful. Your last post interested me.

You said you would try having a rational conversation with your mom. However, from what you said earlier you have tried this before. Why are you expecting a different result this time? If it didn't work then why should it now?

As others have said, you need to cease control of the situation and change your behaviour. Just set out what you are prepared to do, no negotiations as the agenda is yours. No contact doesn't need to be for ever.

Maybe your mom needs a short sharp shock. Sounds to me as if you have been a very good daughter but your first duty is to yourself and your own family. I wish you well.

Maddyone it seems to be a generation of mothers who were brought up to look after their elderly mums. But the next generation have been brought up to look after themselves?

Grey Rock - Never heard the term before but I realise that's what I did eventually with my very nasty MIL. - and that's what husband has done to her too - he must have learnt as a boy that it was the only way to get by. mywellbeing.com/for-therapists/grey-rock-technique

I’ve never heard the term “Grey Rock” but I’ve actually been doing this for years ! My mum is 91, a controller all her life and now she has no one to control, I get all the hostility. I could fill a book with it all and made the decision years ago that I was in control of my life not her. I’m very assertive, not rude, I stop her mid sentence when she oversteps the line, and I tell her very little about mine or my AC lives. I’ve just lost another brother, but he didn’t speak to mum for 5 years at one time because of her controlling. She nagged my poor Dad all his life, and she falls out with anyone who won’t comply. I give her 3 hours a week, and I ring her once and that’s it. She tells everyone that I only spare her those 3 hours, so I’m glad that it’s registered. I refuse to be dictated to, refuse to be spoken down to and I refuse to be with anyone who angers me. I do not argue with anyone, I am placid and have many life long friends and am best friends with 3 AC and their partners. Mum is the one area in my life where I get angst, and I flatly reuse to pander to her, mother or not. As others have rightly said, this is not the behaviour of a loving and caring mother. She misses out on so many family get togethers because of what she is, it’s very sad but very true.

It is a very difficult decision for you but from your comments I feel you know that you have to distance yourself for your own sanity. It is tough. My relationship with my mum was always difficult and when I told her I was getting divorced it was all my fault, I couldn’t have just put up with it, (abusive relationship) I had brought shame on the family etc etc - no sympathy just blame on me. I estranged from them and it took 18 months but eventually they made contact and apologised and we are back now on better terms although it has taken a long time and there is a part of me that won’t forgive that incident and many many more. It was only when I had that estrangement that I came to release that actually there was a lot that she was traumatised about. In a way she blamed me for getting out because she hadn’t years before and had put up with a very domineering relationship for years herself. It helped me put it into perspective.

I can’t say that is the case for your mum but there might be something that caused a trigger from years before. She may be jealous of your independence or life and doesn’t deal with it properly and that has festered and grown.

Definitely for your sake have some space. What happens later will remain to be seen but you can’t feel guilty for putting your own mental health first. If you go on an airplane (when you could!) you are told to put on your oxygen mask before helping another. I use this analogy regularly myself in that I have to make sure my mental health is in an ok state before I can help anyone else. Take time for you.

Or why do so many women want to demonise their mothers in their dotage so they can walk away happy with everyone telling them they are saints and deserve happiness? All sounds a bit fanciful.
People get away with what they can get away with that’s for sure, and if you feel you are being abused by a mother now she is very old you have the power, you can gradually put your foot down and not be masochistic. You can’t make her what you want, kind and gentle and grateful and quiet. We all dream of mothers gently going into the night, I doubt if it has ever been thus. We all know the care system is broken in this country and to leave them to that is by perhaps heartless and / or very expensive. You have to forgive be strong and be as kind as you can. I’ve often seen such people rage like this until they accept the inevitable, she is obviously very scared of death. Old age ain’t for sissies. It is the toughest thing we will all face.

Should you cut ties? YES YES a thousand times YES!

This will only give you the freedom and peace you and your brother deserve IF you don't succumb to the burden of guilt you may feel which will be worse than anything your toxic mother will put you through.

Don't try to justify yourself to other people who will say things like "oh but she's your mother. People who say this don't understand and never will so don't try to explain.

The things you say is like describing my mother and brother who is 21 years younger than me and has been bullied etc all his life. When she needed more care she became more abusive and hateful to him.

I decided enough was enough and told him that I was breaking all ties with her and so should he.

Our mother lived another 15 years in which her mental, emotional and physical torture would have persisted. By cutting our ties we were able to heal and live in peace.

I have NO regrets but my sensitive brother suffers from the guilt from time to time but I support him through it.

SO should you cut ties? I repeat YES YES A THOUGHSAND TIMES YES!

Gampsy your situation is heartbreaking. You You need to do whatever it takes to protect your own mental health and if that means cutting ties with your abusive mother so be it. Try a few of the suggestions - keep any contact to a minimum. If you do the shopping. Don't stop too long and don't give her any information she can use against you. If she phones you - say you are cleaning the bedrooms / walking the dog/ whatever. Cutting her out of your life completely is a big decision, but this might be the way you can cope. You could discuss options with your brother.

Others have said it. She will not change so there will not be a “happy” outcome but there should be a less abusive one. Decide what you can live with. No contact? Fine. Once a month check she is alive (sounds like neighbours do that though) equally fine but every time she is rude you say “unacceptable” and nothing else. Do not apologise. At most, if she says she may as well die, say “as you have said”. Good luck

For your own health, at least take a proper break from her because ghus could go on for years. If neighbour is looking in on her regularly, you don't have to worry about that side of things. Seems like she has a few people running around after her! You and your brother have done your very best, but she is abusing and damaging you both. If she does die, you will have nothing to reproach yourself for. Keep contact with your brother. At least you have each other. I know how you must feel from the guilt point of view, because we only have one mum, but unless she becomes a bit kinder, your mental health will continue to suffer. Manipulation and control is going on here.

Hi. I can’t really give you much advice except to say I had an abusive mother that I just ignored during the last few years of her life. She was in a care home and siblings would visit so I did know she wasn’t abandoned. I thought I’d feel guilty but nope, it was freeing and gave me a more relaxed life. I also felt no guilt or unhappiness when she died, maybe as a result of the therapy I have had over the past few years.
One thing I want to say though, I was surprised to see so many people commenting on here that their mothers were the same. I always thought everyone else’s mother was ‘normal’ and it was only me that had a cold, controlling and sometimes cruel one. It’s almost a relief to know I wasn’t alone in that! I would not wish it on anyone so just to say I sympathise, empathise and wish you all well x

She sounds like my mil. She was exactly the same spoke to me and my husband like we were dirt then expected us to run around after her as it was ,’ our duty’ she died three years ago after 40 years of hurtful comments and behaviour and it has left a dent in our lives after we analysed the hurt and wonders why we put up with it.

When it starts on the phone, interrupt her saying away from the receiver, Coming! Then say gently got to go and hang up immediatly. Don't give her a chance to say anything.

I am expecting the sulky, hard done by Mum to come on the phone and I then have to win her over before she will capitulate and speak normally to me - Gampsy

You are playing right into her hands. As several have said, she knows how to push your buttons.

I echo what Easybee said ^'do not indulge in conversation beyond the mundane, and if she starts the silent treatment bid goodbye politely and put the phone down.
She knows what she is doing and it won't change now; you have to change your response to her.^

JillyJosie2

Discodancer, I did see your post but depression is not the same as a personality disorder, especially borderline personality disorder.

Fair enough. I suppose I was focusing on having said she sounds ill. Then you said ‘ no one else has said this, she sounds ill to me’.

It seems Gampsy doesn’t think that though. She knows her best.