Toxic Mother

"please never forget that you have your life because your mother gave birth to you..."
I was never consulted before being conceived if I wanted the parents I was given, I would have said no.

So that is a bunch of gaslighting and bs

My mother was like that . . . to a degree.

However, I disagree with the majority who have said to cut ties. Whatever she is, she is still your mother. I would suggest you help her where you can and ignore the hurtful stuff. She's an old lady now and I think you'll regret it if you walk away. She looked after your once and now it's your turn to your bit. We all have our cross to bear and this is your's. Don't let her pass away without knowing that you did your best. That's all any of us can do. Good luck!

You have my full sympathy. My adoptive mother would have been far happier had I had four legs and a tail. Best day of my life was when she walked away and out of my life in 1996. Haven't heard from or seen her since. She sent me a shocking abusive letter after she left calling me all sorts of names, my husband a thing (he was nothing of the sort), our 3 daughters manipulative and evil and finished it off by saying that 'most people only have one mother, you've had two and neither wanted you'. Good riddance to her. For your own sanity sometimes you just have to give up trying to please others. I hope that you find a solution that works for you. Don't let your mum put a guilt trip on you or your brother. Good luck with whatever you decide. X

I agree with you sal49 and dodi49. Perhaps it is because we are in our seventies and have longer view and don't immediately accept one side of a complex human relationship nor encourage people to abandon their aged mothers. I've been called cruel for saying this...I don't think so, to side with the weak and not the strong is not cruel. Maintaining that the mother in her 80's is the powerful one and deserves to be abandoned is heartless. If you haven't abandoned her before why now?
Luckily my mum didn't die till she was 95 and though was not cheerful in her last year and had been very rude to many in her dementia periods I am so grateful I was able to see her out. My daughter has mother in law in her 80's who is suffering from dementia and is acting outrageously - calling the police telling them she is captured wailing constantly. Poor thing it is not a time to leave them. Or to congratulate those who leave them. If you haven't dealt with a difficult mother till she is in her eighties...why do it now?

My sisters behaved very badly towards me and my late mother. My doctor solved my dilemma by comparing them to cancer and advised me to cut them out of my life so I did. It was better that way. I feel sad for you but you have to do it. As my doctor said- you wouldn’t keep cancer because it was part of you. Good luck with everything.

My mother was alcoholic and difficult. I was an only child, but she had a second husband so she wasn't dependant on me. She hated him too! But I found that my life became easier when I mentally 'divorced' her as a parent - she was just someone I used to know, who contributed nothing to my life and to whom I owed nothing any more. If anything, it helped our relationship because she became less aggressive when I didn't react.

If DB is not talking, and since your DF died, you need help. You don't say whether your mother is able to cope alone. You do her shopping but do you have to? Online supermarket delivery is great if she is able to put it all away herself. If she is dependent on some help then try to get that in place first before you act, eg carers, shopper, cleaner, weekly lunch club, and that will take some of the burden off your shoulders. Local authorities often have an alarm service. Find out if DB is willing to help sort things out. Maybe have a quiet word with the neighbours and get their opinion. Social services is a battle but, if she is entitled to help, be persistent. Otherwise, she may be able to afford it herself. If all else fails, would you pay for help for her for your own mental health?
You say her personality has always been like this. If she is also now worried about being frail and alone she will still use bullying and guilt to keep you running after her. Don't give her the satisfaction of arguing or reasoning with her. Maybe occasionally surprise her if you could detach yourself, pretend she's not your controlling DM, and say tell me about it, what are you worried about? Not that she deserves that from you but she might need to unload too and it gives you back some control. For this reason, I don't agree about not giving her a time when you will phone, for a person living alone it gives some consistency, for example, 'Gampsy phones me every Tuesday evening and visits every other Saturday for an hour' and that is a constant for her.
Try to take the burden off your shoulders now as much as possible- unfortunately, given her age, things will only get worse. I love the grey rock advice - I found this was one thing that worked with DM. If she said something inappropriate I changed the subject none too subtly sometimes! DM had a very hard life but I never really wondered about how the war affected her, as someone else said. I'm sure we have lots of imperfect mothers amongst our numbers too but that generation lived with the horror of war and fear so I guess being aggressive or unable to be loving and warm might have been a consequence of that. Not that that makes a difference to how you choose to deal with it. You sound a kind person but don't just put up with this situation, take your thinking time during your holiday and work out a solution for both of you that will free her hold on you and prevent you feeling guilty. If you decide to cut contact with her, remember it was imposed on so many elderly people in lockdown and she will manage.

Gampsy's mother may have an undiagnosed personality disorder. In her generation, mental health issues were not raised or discussed or acknowledged, and if a woman had a problem it was looked down upon as almost self pity. For the few women where it was recognised, there was still the pull yourself together and cope expectation, rather than any real help.

My own mother oozed negativity through my childhood, early adult years, and even when I had children of my own she made dispariging remarks about all the family and sons and daughter in law's, and grandchildren, and even her own friends were always criticised. It was depressing me when I visited. So I limited contact to deal with it, but I think that made her very much more bitter than helped, and she wallowed in a feeling of martyrdom rather than changing her own behaviour and attitudes. She has however mellowed slightly after her 85th birthday, possibly realising far too late, that one should not focus so much on transfering her negativity on others.

You must look after your own well being but perhaps a family discussion with you brother on the Grey Rock strategy and some attempt to find out if her negativity is due to some long standing issue. Have you ever asked her why she does what she does and says what she says, and told her how it makes everyone feel about it? Cutting her off in Old age without an explanation does seem to go against your previous years of kindness and support and I suspect you will feel guilty if you do not have one last effort at getting to the bottom of her issues.

Gampsy - the first thing you have to accept in this situation is that not all women make good mothers and somehow that's a difficult one for us to acknowledge. We all accept (because we see it around us) that many men make lousy fathers, but there is a widespread feeling that we shouldn't comment negatively upon other women's parenting skills. However, the truth of the matter is that your mother is a narcissist - that's my reading of her personality from what you write, and from my own background as a social psychologist and psychotherapist.
So the first thing you must do is tap into your rational mind and acknowledge that she has always been self-obsessed and a bad mother to yourself and your brother (and likewise a bad role model to your own children). Once you accept this, the feeling of guilt that you believe you will feel when you estrange her will diminish because guilt is born from the belief that you yourself have done something wrong - you haven't. The second thing you should do is remember that while you are in the process of your guilt diminishing, you should compare what you are feeling with the range of other negative emotions you feel on a day-to-day basis when you are maintaining contact with her. There will be a balance in favour of putting up with the diminishing, residual guilt. And your overall mental health will be better than it was.
The option of Gray Rocking mentioned by Violet Sky is one you could try - this is known to shut down narcissists - if you feel you want to give the relationship one last go, but you will have to develop the skill and it may mean rehearsing out loud how you will open a conversation with your mother. This is a technique that you could perhaps develop with a therapist during what is called 'empty chair work'. It can take several weeks to develop the tendency to respond in the right way. You may feel, however, that your investment in the relationship with your mother has already placed you in the red as it were. If so, walk away. By staying you are enabling the continuation of her behaviour with you. Good luck.

I've just caught up to all the many replies today and they are beautiful.

I know they have helped me emensely and I really hope you can feel all this overwhelming support you have Gampsy and that it gives you the power to take your life back again.

LinkyPinky

I’d like to hear her side of the story before I comment.

I suspect we know what that will be like!

You can't alter your Mother's behaviour, but you can certainly change your own. I would draw back, and wait to see if she contacts you. If she doesn't, is there information in her home about who is next of kin, perhaps in the event of an emergency? Get on with your life; no child deserves this kind of mental cruelty from a parent, and for those who say she may be mentally unbalanced, that doesn't make life any easier for you. If she is able to look after her own needs, then I would keep my distance .

chris8888

She is in her 80s, probably got some dementia going on, sad time to cut ties.

read the thread!

I am so sorry. I had a mother if I could ever say she was, was very similar to your situation. She died over 20 years ago in her mid eighties and I’m still haunted by the dreadful things that she did to my late father, my two sisters and myself. I read up about her personality type and she ticked all the boxes of a narcissistic personality disorder. When she died as a widow, she left all her money in her will to my elder sister who lives in North America, and my sister and myself a token amount of money. My elder sister got away from her abuse and my sister and I did everything for her as we lived in the same county! She nearly reduced because to a breakdown, but I recovered and became stronger. Detached myself from her emotionally and didn’t respond to any of her vile letters messages and demands. Try and remain strong … it’ll pass. Seek counselling and psychotherapy if you can .. and meditation too. Groups nearby I expect. It’s a lifesaver. I wish you well. ❤️?

She is an abuser, just because she is not violent , the psychological abuse is just as bad, maybe even worse.
She has manipulated you are your brother for all your lives.
You need to walk away for your own sanity, my great grandmother( my Nan’s mum) was like this and so bad that my grand dad insisted they move away , my great grand mother loved to over a hundred, could you stand this for another 20 years ? You deserve to have a life of your own free of such energy sapping drama

I would suggest do what you want to do and no more. For example shopping if she can,t get to the shops but no more.

I’ve been thinking of this dilemma most of the day. My original thoughts were to reduce contact. I’m now not sure that’s what’s needed. Think I’d continue to treat her with respect but do tell her how negative, nasty, selfish, rude she is behaving when it happens. There’s no point in suffering in silence letting her behaviour fester is doing you no good. If she is nasty or verbally inappropriate just leave and tell her why. I’d certainly not go into her home (Covid reasons)
I do feel you’d regret cutting ties considering her age. Just be blunt it sounds as if this is the language she understands.

This sounds just like my mother. A whole lifetime of walking on eggshells. Toxic. She died in 1997. I should have had the courage to walk away but never did. I was always the dutiful daughter until the end (to my detriment).

This is my life too except it was my mother who pushed my middle sister and I away after telling us that her sole inheritance will go to my youngest sister and she is Excetor of my mother will with her son. It's as though my mum wants to hurt my middle sister and from the grave. My mother was abused as a child and from what I have read it can cause personality disorders. I stumbled across a website discribing having to walk on eggshells with those that suffer from borderliner personality disorder which felt like I was reading about my mother. My younger sister is an opportunist and obviously has justified that because my mother plans to leave her everything that is how it will be. Mum pushed out and my sister has also estranged herself from us. I felt sadness, disappointed, anger and frustration along with hurt. I know I have to accept things or it will eat me alive and spoil the remainder of my life and my middle sister and at least we have each other.

My mother is toxic - has been towards me for most of my life, yet out of duty I did everything for her ............ until she played a nasty and dirty trick across me on her 80th birthday. She allowed my youngest brother (who is probably more toxic than her!) to arrange a HUGE birthday party (that she had asked me to organise) and that she knew, because of my health restrictions, I would not be able to attend. Her birthday is the day after mine, and on her birthday I went to take her gift - she threw the gift at me that my father had bought - I asked why she had allowed my brother to be so spiteful and her reply was "We are all sick of you playing on your illness". I became paralysed 15 years ago, and have never even spoken about it to any of them, and never, ever 'played on it'. When she said that I turned around and walked away - that was 10 years ago, and I have had nothing to do with her, or her 3 sons since. Sadly my father had dementia and died 2 years ago - I learnt of his death on social media (despite the fact that they live next door to me!) This woman is toxic, and by the sounds of it, so is your mother. I have no regrets, and I hope that if you walk away you won't either. Believe me, it is hard at first, I cried every day for 6 months - but it really does get better.

You may actually find going nc quite liberating. I have, in the last few years, cut out difficult toxic people from my life including family. I thought I would feel guilty but actually found it liberating and am a much happier person for doing it. Just because you are related to someone does not mean you have to put up with bad treatment. I have a few wonderful friends who I spend time with and am happy in my own company and much more at peace. Enjoy your own children and enjoy your life and don't let your mothers behaviour spoil another day.

Hi Gampsy

I so understand what you are going through. My mother terrorised everyone around her, even my Dad who passed away almost 2 years ago. I've been in counselling for years because her and trying to overcome the mental damage she has done. I'm 57 and she is 85 and I cut all contact shortly after my Dads death as she stopped bothering with me when I was of no further use to her (my Dad needed a lot of extra care towards the end and I stayed with them for a week until a place in a care home became available for end of life care).
I was taken into hospital with a suspected fractured bone in my neck, she was told of this but didnt even text to see if I was ok. This gave me the strength and reason to walk away from her toxic behaviour.
By all means try grey rock and I hope it works for you, but dont feel guilty if you decide to walk away permanently as you matter too!!
Good luck and take care xx

I'm sorry for what you are going thru. My mother is in her 80s and horrid. Long history of abuse. I finally changed my phone number and it was the best decision I ever made, and I haven't looked back. At 64 years old, I'm finAlly free. My only regret is I didn't do it sooner. Free yourself from your abuser. It's exile rating when you finally do!

The people who say "You only get one mother" or "she's your mother-you'd regret going low or no contact" have not ever had a parent who is deliberately nasty and toxic. Or they are mired in fear, obligation or guilt. Take back control of the relationship and contact her when or if you want to. You owe her nothing.

You have had some excellent advice and hope that helps,additionally do some kind things for yourself you have had a lifetime of coping with a very difficult situation.
Maybe mention you are unable to drive at present and set up shopping delivery and see if after several weeks she phones to see if your OK,if she doesn’t it will be easier to step back.
I watched my husband go through this for many years and continue to the bitter end,89,even his Will was very cruel.So don’t expect good results,good luck.