Will my granddaughter remember me?

Smileless2012

in your example Hithere the estranged person asks for help to to talk to their parents so why is the aunt in your example "butting in when they shouldn't"?

A typical one sided example too. It could go this way:

Aunt: I understand, it must be difficult for you. Would you like me to talk to them about this and see if I can help them to understand?

It isn't only the one who instigates the estrangement who can be on the receiving end of unwanted advice.

EAC's sibling: You need to keep reaching out with letters and cards
Parent: I can't keep doing that because it upsets me when I don't get a response
EAC's sibling: But s/he needs to know you love her/him
Parent: I've told her/him again and again, there's nothing more I can do
EAC's sibling: But she's your D/he's your son. Your the mother it's your responsibility. You'll never see your GC again if you don't sort this out.

I think you misunderstood Smileless. Hithere said, "This is help - the estranged person initiates the exchange
Estranged person to aunt: hey, help me talk to my parents. What can I do to fix this" She was saying it is OK to help if they ask.

OP, "This has nothing to do with Covid. The fundamentals of this go way back before that and have different causes, but suffice to say that my son is no longer close to any of his former friends or family"

Smileless, I did not read OP to say; "she was {not} having problems with her relationship with her son before this happened". Maybe she was maybe she was not, the post from OP, above, is decidedly not definitive as to time.

Maybe DS thinks he has put up with too many "fundamentals of this go way back before that and have different causes" and that she needed to "work on herself". Simples, really. Do the work and wait patiently. She is waiting, not a problem really. She wonders to the GC remembering, that's OP question.

I think the op alovelycupoftea has told us she has signed off from this thread.
So I dont feel as if I'm derailing it by saying, I really really dislike the name flying monkey!
When a human is labelled, rather than called by name, they are reduced to the category assigned for them, by the bias of the person using the label.
IMO its bullying.

I agree Namsnanny it's too easy to assign this label to someone just because you don't like the advice they're giving, without taking into account they may have the best of intentions.

Smileless?

Namsnanny Well said.

OP, in case you are still reading, I met my GM twice, once when I was 3 and once when I was 8. I have some memories of her, including when I was 3. So yes, it is possible your GD will have some memories of you.

I think it is hard for a child of barely 3 to remember someone unless they are talked about. I had an uncle die when I was 4, I have some memories of him but my parents talked about him, I saw his children, we had photos of him. I'm not sure that even at 4 I'd have remembered much of him without that but I suppose some people have better memories than I do.

I do remember one thing from when I was 2 and that was being taken to hospital in an ambulance and looking out and seeing my sister with my gran and a vague memory of looking through the bars of the cot in the ward. Those are my earliest memories and I suppose the trauma made them quiet memorable. I do also remember being at Mass in a crowded church, I was in my dad's arms and there was nowhere to sit down as it was so full. Poor dad stood there for an hour with me in his arms. I think I was 2 or 3 but I can't be sure of that.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I’ve put this in the wrong place, I’m too emotional to navigate.

Roobs I really think you need to start a new thread . To do that click on "Forums" at top of page, click "Estrangement" in list then "Start a New thread" at top of page, pick a title and then post your concerns regarding your own situation

There is also a support thread for all those who are estranged in the Estrangement forum where you can talk with others who have experience of different levels of estrangement/low contact or who fear those. You will find support, understanding, sometimes critical friend but kindly said suggestions and more

I wonder what mistakes you feel you made ? Did you ignore the parents' wishes in some way ?

I wish you well anyway !

Roobs

Hello lovely people.

After living with us for a year my DIL upped and left and took the GC with her . It was only two weeks ago so still very raw. I’m in absolute bits. Have medication Dr so hoping that helps.

They came to live here in Oct 20 as they were financially drowning due to Covid. They packed up from 300 miles away and moved here. We adjusted our lives to accommodate them as much as we could. The children loved it here they really did, enrolled in school and hopefully have super memories. My son and DIL got good jobs, we’re paying off debts and it was a gift to watch them all flourish.
The six week school holidays were stressful and things came to a head and my son and I argued . It was my granddaughters birthday and they excluded me because of the argument with my son. I was so upset about this and voiced it ( quite harshly) in our group chat. DIL said I crossed a boundary . DIL said I was poisonous, toxic and narcissistic. (. Not to me but my son) .
She said she was going to her mums for a few days, she was upset I gave her a cuddle and said when she returned we should all sit and talk about mutual expectations.
Two hours later she sent my son a text that she was never returning, he was to find a new job and an house close to her family. She said I am not to be around the children!!
My son said that she never wanted to be here in the beginning and it was solely dictated by finances and my text was the straw that broke it.

I feel guilty, sad, aching for those children and sad they never got a goodbye from us.
My son is still here whilst he looks for a job where she is but is not pleasant to me at all .

Any advice ? I’m only just beginning to accept they’re not coming back.

I asked for it to be removed it was a accident I’m so sorry I thought I started a new thread,

Roobs see my post above re starting a new thread

alovelycupofteaa, yes, she'll remember you. I have vivid memories of a grandmother who, sadly, died very young. I still feel the warm, cosy affection I had for her too.

Don't give up on the communication with your son and family, even from a distance, as one day he may have a change of heart.

Hi Roobs just in case you're unable to start a new thread I'll respond to you here.

Firstly, welcome to GN. You'll find that there are other parents and GP's who are in a very similar situation to you so you're not alone. From personal experience, that alone can be comforting.

Your d.i..'s behaviour is totally unacceptable and it's a shame that your son is going along with her. He is the children's father and it is not her decision alone to say whether or not you can see them.

From what your son has said I'm sorry to say that it sounds as if you've been used until he and his wife could get back on their feet financially.

You have nothing to feel guilty about. They have used your GC to punish you for the argument you had with your son. I'm sure someone will ask what that was about but IMO it's irrelevant.

Your post suggests it was you voicing your feelings about being excluded from your GD's birthday that resulted in your d.i.l. leaving and not the argument with your son.

You're entitled to say how you feel especially when your GC are being used as weapons against you.

My advice is to talk to your son and ask him if he's going to allow you to see your GC or not. If he's going to put his wife's wishes before his GC's relationship with their GP's then perhaps he should find somewhere else to stay while he's looking for work.

If his intentions are to find work near his wife's family, why is he staying with you while he does this and not with them?

I think living with inlaws is a recipe for disaster.
There's 2 separate family units in one house, adding in Covid and lockdown I can see why it all came to a head. I think it was the nail in the coffin for some marriages too!

I don't blame your DIL for leaving either, it sounds like you was all living in a pressure cooker, the atmosphere must of been horrible.

I'd apologise to your son and DIL for the harsh things you said and whatever else has happened. You'll probably find that once you're not under the same roof it'll calm down abit.

Why on earth should Roobs apologise to her son and d.i.l.?

She argues with her son, people do argue and manage to deal with it without using their children to punish the other party.

They moved in with her to ease their financial situation and this is her reward. Any apology should be coming from her d.i.l.

Because OP posted 'it all came to a head' over the 6 weeks holiday and she had an argument with her son.
Apology 1.

'It was my granddaughters birthday and they excluded me because of the argument with my son. I was so upset about this and voiced it ( quite harshly) in our group chat. DIL said I crossed a boundary . '
Apology 2.

Then OP said the text, whatever OP said in it was the last nail in the coffin for DIL.
So that's an argument with her son, then a harsh text message.
DIL flipped and left.

Son and OP aren't in a great place, not talking or whatever because of the argument they had, and then the WhatsApp exchange.
DIL has upped and gone.

Why on earth wouldn't you apologise for the things that you've done and said?
OP has said herself she feels guilty and puts her hands up that she was quite harsh and there was arguments.

What OP shouldn't do is ignore her part she played in it, ignore the fragile relationship with her son and go straight after his children.

Roobs is not the OP March

"go straight after his children" for goodness sake what's that supposed to mean?

She argued with her son that's no reason to exclude her from her GD's birthday. The line that was crossed was crossed by her son and d.i.l.

Her d.i.l. tells her son that she's "poisonous, toxic and narcissistic" another line crossed by the d.i.l. and then her son by telling his mother.

She gave her d.i.l. a cuddle before she left because she was upset and said they should all sit down when she comes back to talk about their mutual expectations. A perfectly reasonable and mature response IMO.

2 hours later her son gets a text message from his wife saying she's never going back, he has to find a house and a job close to her family and that his mother is not to be around the children.

I agree that the relationship with her d.i.l. is fragile and may be fragile with her son but that's down to her d.i.l.

I have apologized I sent her a message explaining that I should have waited until the morning and talked to her instead of texting from work. I explained I was juggling too much ( our dog was put to sleep that day too) ( her grandads dog that we took on when her gran died 3 years ago cos none of her family wanted him) him). She has not read or replied to the apology stating to my son she is protecting herself from my poison. Totally unjustified but my sons buying this.

Is there any way to cut and paste my original post into a new thread??

Yes, go straight after his children.
They literally aren't speaking to each other and a good idea would be to ask him if she still gets to see his children and if he will side with his wife?

I dont know what the argument was about and I don't know what was said in those messages. All this started because of the row between the OP and her Son.
Nothing to do with the DIL.
It then escalated after the 'quite harsh' text the OP sent which hit a nerve with his wife as she left.

But then again, I'm giving advice as what I would do if I was in OPs position.
I would apologise for the argument with my son and for my part in that row, especially as he's still under the same roof as me and could have time to fix it.
The relationship with MY child would be my only priority.
I'd then make peace with his wife for the things I'd said in that group message.
I wouldn't expect a relationship with my grandchildren if I didn't had a good relationship with either of their parents.