SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

PP, What you are saying your son is doing is a familiar scenario, it’s how they distance themselves. Nothing you do is right. None of them answer home phones though, most get rid of them and use mobiles. Don’t doubt yourself, read back what you have said he’s done, does he sound reasonable? Do not let yourself be bullied, you’re the mother he’s the son, he talks to you with respect or you don’t engage.

Well, I phoned my eldest son yet again on the house phone and yet again, no one answered. Then I phoned his mobile and he ended up shouting down the phone at me. I feel so upset at the things that he said. According to him I have made no effort to spend time with his kids. They never answer the phone and I have to try and make an appointment. I have been the one going to them, phoning etc and he said that they are not made welcome when they come here. DH said that is a lie which I know is true. I asked why they never bring them to see me and he said that it was my job to go to them as I wasn’t working and they are! He was shouting so much. They are all spending the christmas festivities at their holiday home at Devon with his in-laws and we have never been invited. Now he says I should phone up and ask to go to their Devon home if I want to see it! Also he pointed out that I missed a fantastic night at the carol service where my grand daughter was singing. I said that he should have phoned me and invited me but he said that I should have phoned and asked! Eh? Am I supposed to phone the school and ask when my grand kids are doing anything. It got very heated and I said that I didn’t want to fall out with him and I was wishing them all a very merry christmas and ending the call. He just hung up. Honestly I have been so upset all night but I feel like I have brought it all to a head and a strange peace lies within me. I need a hug. Thank you for reading. Now 2 of my children are estranged from me. He also pointed out that my mam, their gran was a fantastic gran to them and I cannot compare with her as I have been rubbish! I am in shock and so upset.

I hope now everything's been sent you'll be able to have some peace and happiness this Christmas PP. You've done all that you can and can do no more.

Our EAC must be extremely cold hearted, if they have hearts at all.

Whiff. That is amazing losing all of that weight. I am struggling to lose 2 stone but I will give it my best in the new year.

I have just posted off by recorded delivery the cards and vouchers to my daughter and my 2 lovely grand daughters. I did put a short note in with them so lets see if anything happens. I can bet not. Also send off the cards and vouchers for my eldest son, DIL and grand children. I did ring his house phone again yesterday afternoon but no one answered. To be fair, it is a hectic time and the children do a lot with friends etc. Giving them the benefit of the doubt but I have posted their stuff off now so lets see if they get in touch. It is always me getting in touch with them and I am fed up with it. DIL’s parents seem to get run about after a lot. I’m knitting a hat for charity this afternoon. These dark damp days do nothing for the mood. I could just sit and cry my eyes out today. So down and never once did I think that these cute kids would treat me like this. I would never had treat my mam like this.

Thank you Spring.

Well done Smileless - and I want to say a huge thank you for the way you support so many here. Even though you too have tough days, you’re here for us all. I doubt you’ll ever know how much or how many of us you’ve helped. Rest well.

That's it, all 'sung out' for another year.

Thanks everyone. You're right Yogin singing all these beautiful carols certainly hasn't helped my emotional state.

Just this afternoon's carol service, with only 2 to sing and then I'm done which is just as well as, much to Mr. S.'s delight no doubt, my voice is tired and in need of rest.

Just read this post out to him and he didn't deny it; he laughed.

Sorry to hear how emotional you are feeling Smileless I think it's singing all those Xmas carols. I couldn't go to a church service or to a funeral, as I would get so emotional and quietly cry. I'm better now, but still need to control myself

I knew you would do well with your carol service and that all enjoyed it. Well done you [hope you have enough vases]

Smileless - so pleased your concert went well and you and Mr S enjoyed it. So sorry the estrangement is weighing heavily just now. Interesting how these phases come upon us, isn’t it. After a melt down 3 weeks ago which I posted about here, I’m feeling surprisingly ok now. I know I’ve done all I can in the past to reconcile. EC has made their choice. They live with their decision and the hurt they have caused.
I’m not sure I’ll ever trust them again, although of course would welcome them back into our lives. But we are happier without the drama, the games, the unkindness. I don’t have the energy for it now. Yes there is loss, but every person has to learn to live with loss in one form or another. Not sure if that’s a helpful comment or not, but we’re not alone. I also try to take care of myself - love the tip about spoiling ourselves with the skin care products DL - and I try to not be a victim in all this, as that would make it a double tragedy. Doing things for others also helps. We didn’t choose this, we can’t change it, but we can survive it! Allsorts, you are right. We must value ourselves. Like you I feel I don’t know my EC any more.

Smileless, glad your concert went so well, I thought it would. It’s horrible how the grief of estrangement can engulf you even if you know there’s no going back. I had a few bad weeks when it got to me, I feel better the last few days though. Mainly because I know after all this time I don’t know her and dislike how she’s treated me and my family. I think we mourn for how it could and should have been. Everything we see to do with Christmas are big happy families, plus I am the only person in my group of friends and contacts to be estranged, it’s hard thinking that for me that closeness is gone forever.
Derbyshire I treat myself at Christmas, birthdays and anniversaries. I treated myself to good cleanser, toner and mascara, plus had my hair chopped off which I immediately decided to grow again. It’s too choppy and flies off every which way. It’s so important to value and treat ourselves now and then.
Purple pixie, good news that your son is not so bad with Covid, he should be ok for Christmas. I know what you mean about your granddaughter and missing so much, I have to with my lovely gd, who although old enough to visit if she wants to, seems to go along with what my d wants. Life is to valuable to let them win and make us sad.

Whiff. Lovely to hear how things worked so well for you. And WOW to the weight loss - just WOW. That's some achievement. I have about 2.1/2 stones to lose. I'm quite tall and "hide" it well but I know I will feel better if I shift the weight. My knees certainly will.

Good that your busy social life equates to lower heating bills, that's a real plus.

I have scaled back on Christmas presents (and madams birthday gift). So today, with the money I've saved, I have just ordered myself some treats - some better skin care products. I have been making do with cheap and cheerful and whilst they are ok in the summer they really aren't good enough to combat the central heating and cold winds in winter.

My poor skin is currently so dry and sensitive right now, it really needs some serious TLC. So I just thought "sod it" and ordered the good stuff. ??

I was going to wrap the presents today but just cba.

Manyana. ?.

DerbyshireLass my husband was Christmas mad as well. He loved it. He cooked Christmas lunch from when I was 38 and had total hysterectomy week before Christmas . He loved it with the kids help and did it every year until 2002. He was to ill the next year so the children did it. It was the last proper meal he eat . His roasties where always better than mine. If I want to be sad I allow myself to sad Christmas Eve never Christmas day.

Your aims are what I wanted and have done. Love my bungalow . My neighbour 2 doors away brought me a Christmas gift yesterday from him and his wife it was a bowl with 5 iris bulbs kit. It's in the garage ready to bring in the house in 10 weeks. Last year they brought me a miniature rose because they didn't know if I was having Christmas on my own . I planted it in the front garden and it's had the most beautiful red roses all year. I can't receive and not give. So took them 4 jars of my homemade persevers . I have never had such kind people as my neighbours in the road .

Lost 7st weight still trying to loose the last stone and bit.

Love my exercise class made friends and we laugh for a hour but have a good workout. Then tea , biscuits and a natter.

Same at my craft group that's for 2 hours . All my brownies went on Thursday.

I said to my daughter my heating bill is cheaper this year than this time last year. Then pointed out I am out 3 days a week. I live my life to the full since moving. I just existed in my old house.

Life has a funny way of turning out .

Purplepixie your son is so thoughtful not wanting to worry you. At least you will have Christmas with him even if it's a bit later. The main thing is for him to get better.

I was worried sick when my daughter,son in law and both grandson's had it in January.

I do worry incase my son and family have had it. But will never know. But they would have had the vaccines as they are all for vaccines.

Brownies and shortbread made just having a cuppa.

Take care everyone. ?

Smiles I am so glad that your concert went well. These little bits of pleasure are always welcome.

I had a phone call earlier from my youngest son. He said that he had tested positive the other day for Covid but didnt let me know as I would be worried. Of course I am worried! He is my life! Anyway he has been self isolating all week and will have another test nearer to Christmas to decide whether he is able to come home. I am being practical and we will have Christmas Day at a later date if he cannot make it. He said that it might be Christmas Eve by the time he gets here but I don’t care - I just want him to be ok.

One of my grand daughters texted last night to say that her and her sister, along with their dad and his girlfriend are going to London today. These are my daughters girls. I feel like I have missed out on so much.

A morning of cleaning the kitchen now putting feet up this afternoon with some knitting.

Take care and stay safe all Warrior Queens. Sending love and hugs to you all.

Pleased you enjoyed your concert smileless and that it brought you some pleasure.
Such a desperately hard time of year for us all, its so very difficult to put it out of your mind at times despite the determination to carry on, some days it just hurts too much.
? have the best Christmas possible ?

Hello everyone.

Smiles ......glad the concert went well. How lovely that you have the fabulous Mr S to support you. He sounds a gem.

Woke up feeling a bit low. Miss my husband so much. He always made a huge deal out of Christmas, he was Mr Christmas,

At the funeral, in his eulogy, his best friend said "the world will be a greyer place without him". Never a truer word. Hey ho. The world spins on its axis and life goes on. With or without our thoughtless offspring.

The bitter irony of it for me is that my son has treated and continues to treat me with such callous indifference when he knows full well how much I miss his father.

I have been reflecting on things this last few days, thinking about the road ahead. Whatever lies ahead I am determined to make a fresh start next year. New house, new life, lose weight, get fit and healthy and rebuild my social life.

It's the winter Solstice next week. It always lifts my spirits because I know that as the days get longer it means that spring is on its way.

Whiff.....I am sure you are right - estrangement seems to be rampant. I have been really taken aback by just how many people I know in real life who are estranged from their children and even more who are having to work really hard to try avoid estrangement.

I had no idea just how prevalent it is. It's only since I talked about my own struggles that some of my friends and acquaintances have opened up to me about their own situations. There's a world of pain out there.

Dark miserable day here. And yes definitely getting colder.

Smiles glad your concert when well. And enjoy tomorrows carol service. I love Christmas carols. My favourite is in the bleak midwinter. Seems ironic as an atheist but love singing them at home by myself of course with my voice. Screech owl comes to mind.?.

It's because of the love for my husband makes me determined to carry on no matter what happens in my life. I promised him to live the best life I can . I will never break the promises I made to him . Because he loved me so much and was my everything I am able to get through everyday. Have wobbles and do shout at him if he was here our son wouldn't have done what he did. Then I see him in my mind with his stupid grin and know I can carry on. Because as short as time was together we found the other half of ourselves. And some people live their whole lives and never have that.

I know 29 years my not seem short but we where 16 and 18 when we started courting in 1975 . Married for 22 years. He did what he wanted that was to get to his 47th birthday and died 4 days later. I was 45. Our daughter 20 and son 16.

Granniesunite as Smiles said you are already a Warrior Queen. It takes strength and courage to say this has happened to me and to post here and get the help, support and friendship.

I often wonder how many people are going through estrangement from one or more family member and struggling on their own. Not telling anyone but hiding it. At least we have eachother.

Well better go and make some brownies a double batch to take to my GPs on Monday as a Christmas gift.

Got my brother, sister in law and the mutt as my brother calls Aggie on Monday just for the day. Their house exchanged and completed on Thursday . They are at her dad's but his buyers want to move in before Christmas. So they will stay with friends for Christmas near to their new home. They hope to move into the bungalow first week in January.

Take care and stay warm it's getting colder. ?

You're already a Warrior Queen Granniesunite dealing with your estrangement from your GD and supporting your DD.

Seeing those we love in pain is sometimes harder than dealing with our own. When Mr. S. cries and he still does, it's more like my heart is shattering than being broken.

We're so lucky to have our loving and understanding husbands Onward. TBH I don't think I could have survived this without him.

I do understand why your H maybe finds it difficult to understand how difficult this is for you PP. If this were his child he would I'm sure have a better understanding of the devastation estrangement causes.

That said he needs to understand how important his support is. He doesn't need to be able to understand, he just needs to be there.

Like you said Allsorts "We really do owe it to ourselves to be happy and not let our uncaring grown up children, disinterested in how we are, to spoil what years we have left."

How wonderful about your choir concert, Smileless and that Mr S is proud of you. I'm glad for you that Mr S can talk about it and so sorry its your 9th Anniversary.

I am fortunate that Mr O also allows me to talk about it. It's still very fresh, but sometimes I get moody and snappy and then explain it's because I've been thinking about EAC. Fortuntely he forgives me and understands. He's also devastated at losing GC.

Music is food for the soul and it hits the spot.Not surprised smilelessthat you’re feeling so emotional. Well done you for giving so much pleasure to others through your performances when it’s difficult for you to carry on ?

The hurt and pain of estrangement masks our love at times for our estranged loved ones. I go through phases of being angry at my granddaughter -she’s a bit older now - for not opening her eyes and seeing what her mum went through. For believing all the lies but then I realise that the undermining of her mum and her relationship was going on for so many years that she is as much a victim as her mum was.

Reading about all the very strong and courageous ladies on this thread that face every day head on has given me so much to think about. My daughter has great support from friends and family she is doing exactly as you ladies are doing and so it’s time I joined the warrior queens myself.
My task for the New Year.

To all of you I’d like to say I hope you find peace and Joy this Christmas and for many more to come.?

Morning everyone and thank you for your good wishes and support for last night's concert.

It was lovely, we enjoyed doing it and everyone enjoyed listening to it. It was lovely to have Mr. S. there and feel his love and support. He said he was proud of me.

I'd had a really difficult day yesterday. Overwhelmed with grief, so much so that I was thinking of not going because I felt so emotional.

We had a good talk about things yesterday morning, about what had been done and said and I was left thinking how impossible it is to fathom, that we love and miss someone so much who has treated us so badly, caused and continues to cause so much pain.

I'm so lucky that Mr. S. does talk about how he feels, and allows me to talk about how I feel.

It will be the 9th anniversary of the final blow, the enactment of our estrangement on Christmas Eve (no wonder this is such a difficult time of the year), and we still need to talk about it. It still hurts.

I hope your H will come to realise and understand that 'toughening up' simply isn't something you, or any of us can do PP. We do in time become stronger, maybe we do become tougher. Mr. S. and I in many ways are not the people we were 9/10 years ago.

We know this and I know a couple of very close friends see this too, not in a bad way I hasten to add. Maybe our ES would feel the same if we were ever to meet again.

What a lovely song for your DH's funeral Allsorts. As you say "grief is the price we pay for loving" which is why we grieve for the AC we have lost due to estrangement and why it is quite rightly called a living bereavement.

Just one more 'performance' for me with our very small church choir at tomorrow afternoon's Carol service. Certainly helps get me into the spirit of Christmas; just wish I didn't get so emotional.

A big part of me that hasn't changed and I suspect never will.

for all my dear friends x

Smiles, all the best for tonight, sure it will be wonderful.
Whiff, I didn’t feel anger when my dh died, it just damages us more, I was grief stricken, miss him more now than ever, he was such a kind person and my best friend. He would never have put up with the nonsense that I have from d, he would have said, it’s her choice let her get in with it. Everyone fought so hard for him, as he did, he always thought he’d get better, he never wanted you to be sad, he told me to be happy and live my life enough for both of us and go to the places we had planned to do when he retired, which I have. One of the songs at his funeral was Smile, just him really. I’ve been grieving for my daughter too, but she chose to go out of my life. I can never forget the hurt at a time when I needed her most. The pain of grief is the price we pay for loving but how important that love was and is.
We really do owe it to ourselves to be happy and not let our uncaring grown up children, disinterested in how we are, to spoil what years we have left.
I don’t see how a therapist could say stop thinking about it, when is the empathy in him or her, think perhaps she might have picked the wrong career.

All the best for tonight Smileless

I'm so sorry you've explained it and he still doesn't get it PP. I still feel annoyed that my therapist told me to "stop thinking about it". It IS a grieving process and you cannot just flick a switch, no matter how much anyone might want you to. Or even how much you might wish you could.

Hope your concert is lovely and you both enjoy it???‍?

Smiles just wanted to wish you well for tonight. Once you start singing any nervous will go. And Mr S will be smiling all the way through.

Purplepixie there is no toughening up especially in the early days. But little by little you find you are accepting the situation. And you need to concentrate on those that love and care for you . Also be kind to yourself . As mom's we always put ourselves last. It isn't selfish to put yourself first for a change .

We have feelings we aren't robots even though sometimes I have felt like one.

I have said before and others have as well estrangement is like breavenment you go through the same emotions. You just learn to cope. Everyone has their own way but you get there in the end. It takes time.

For me talking here helps a lot because I can say exactly how I feel and not be judged or told what I am feeling is wrong.

Allsorts like you I don't feel angry with my son or daughter in law and don't hate them. They are destructive emotions don't want or need them in my life.

When my husband died I felt anger and rage and felt wicked but I soon realised it's normal . He didn't deserve to die in agony. Also didn't help that his mother who was a horrible person out lived him by 11 years.

For me the grief I feel for my husband has never stopped I just cope the best I can . So what my son has done pales in comparison to that.

We all have wobbles and but we pick ourselves up and fight on. Warrior Queens to the end .