SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Thank you Whiff

I think I have just made a fool of myself this morning while in the supermarket. What with the music, christmas stuff and all this carryon with my daughter and eldest son - I just felt so down. I wanted to get some food stuff to put away. One minute I was looking at stuff and I just burst into tears. A lovely young girl who could have been my daughters age came up to me and asked if I was alright. I just couldn’t stop crying and thank goodness for the mask as I must have looked a sight. The whole thing just got too much. I FEEL so down lately. This horrible everyone will be happy lark is all too much. She asked me if I wanted to go with her and her little one and have a cuppa. I thanked her and said I would be OK. I saw her later and gave her the thumbs up sign, but what a lovely kind and caring person. Why cannot my family be like that? They must know what I am going through. I got home and cried some more. DH is busy in his man cave and I am going to have a quiet afternoon and just watch TV and knit. Take care all of my warrior queens on the wonderful site. Thank you. ? ?

Smiles you and DerbyshireLass made me laugh brilliant mind more like a muddled one at times. But I do always try and find a solution to most problems might take me days to sort out but usually get there in the end.

DerbyshireLass I second Smiles rash cream . On second thoughts you could do with a suit of armour. You could use the mace on your daughter in law and son and knock their heads together.

After no one was dependent on me anymore I put my wants and needs first. Both my daughter and son said about time mom. It's not selfish to live the life you want. DerbyshireLass what would your husband want you to do and would he be upset to know you aren't living your life to the full.

That's why I changed I promised my husband to live the best life I can. It wasn't until I made my 3 decisions I started to finally living my life for me. And it wasn't until I moved here I realised I had just been existing in my old home. And not living the life I wanted.

It was very freeing moving so far away as people got to know me. Not all the labels we come attached with.

Until my son dumped me saw both families weekly. When before it was only every few months. My daughter's youngest is the first of my grandson's I have seen weekly since he was 4 days old . I had forgotten how quickly children change week by week.

I love my new life and the new me. My husband would laugh his socks off me liking exercise and gardening. But I love both. New places and new challenges hold no fear for me anymore. And whatever life throws at me I face it head on did that when I first got ill aged 29. But do it more so now.

Life is to short for what if's . And have no intention of growing old gracefully. I will not lie on my death bed saying I wished I had done this that or the other.

We Warrior Queens will fight to the very end to live the lifes we owe ourselves. And bugger are kids who don't want us . They are the losers not us. ??

I hope you've got some cream to put on that love bomb rash DSL.

Feast or famine springs to mind doesn't it. So, make the most of it while it lasts. You've certainly got the right attitude which will enable you protect yourself as much as you can.

When we moved here 5 years ago, that was our mantra. A new start and a new life for us and as you say, there's nothing selfish about it.

Goodness, contact after 9 years because his mother is ill. I don't think I'd want that TBH but if it's a positive for your friend then long may it last and continue when hopefully her health issues have been dealt with.

Oh dear.....sorry for typos

It should read "valuable lesson."

And if "it's not enough".

You are Whiff. Thanks for the tips.

BlueBalou I do hope your DH tries to get to the bottom of things. Whilst I understand why he is maintaining ckntact with your daughter I do think it would be better if he supported you a bit more.

At the moment your daughter seems to be playing off one parent against another, using her father to further hurt you. Your husband needs to show your daughter that this is unacceptable.

Like Whiff I know that if my husband were alive he would never have allowed such a situation, he would never allowed my son and DIL the leeway that I have given them. I have been far too soft in the past, but not any more.

At the moment my son and DIL are all over me like a rash. Love bombing and being all sweetness and light.

It wont last but at least I'm prepared now. I know what to expect. If estrangement happens, then fair enough. I wont let it destroy me.

This last few months have been horrendous and I shall be glad to see the back of 2021. I have learned some ca,jab,e lessons which I shall take forward into 2022 and my life going forward is going to be very different. A new year, a fresh start and a new life for me. FOR ME.?

I've done my best, I can't do any more. If it's enough well there you go.

I'm going to get through Christmas and then make a fresh start in 2022 putting my needs, wants and dreams first for a change.

Selfish.?? I don't think so, I think it's more a self preservation thing. We all need to take care of ourselves, our health and well being because as sure as eggs is eggs our EAC aren't going to be there for us.

Heard of another friend whose estranged son has made contact after 9 years.......but only because he found out his mother is having health issues....?

Your a mine of brilliant ideas Whiff; thank you.

BlueBalou what an awful situation to be in. Like Smiles says your husband should ask what her problem is with you. I know if my husband was alive and my son did that to me he would be asking the hard questions and no give up until he was answered. In a strange way I am lucky my son hasn't just ditched me and his sister but all our side of the family.

Mind you it was me and just a little bit about my daughter my daughter in law vented her spleen about on Reddit.

Smiles you can get very nice words like Grandson stickers. To put on the front of cards. Also Not on the High Street do blank cards which you can personalise with grandson put on the front also their name . I did that when my first 2 grandson's where born. Think Esty do to.

Now why didn't I think of that Whiff and Allsorts, I do want to get cards though that have 'Grandson' on the front; don't know if you can get those that are blank inside.

Mr. S. worries about that a lot Allsorts. What have they been told about us? I keep telling him that there's no point in worrying about something over which we have no control, and it's probably just as well we don't know what's said.

You H must know that you're upset BlueBalou. TBH I'd be very unhappy about him not asking her what's wrong, and why she's effectively ghosting you yet is carrying on with him "as if nothing has happened".

Surely the best way forward is for you to be together on this, supporting one another and trying to find out what's gone wrong here. If your D wont speak to you, then the only person who can try to get to the bottom of this is your H.

I hope you can get something sorted out, especially with Christmas just around the corner.

Thank you everyone for the support.
Oddly my dd is WhatsApping DH as if nothing has happened; I don’t get a single response.
I can only assume it’s me that’s done something wrong, but god knows what!
DH won’t ask her because he ‘doesn’t want to upset her’ ☹️, DS is completely mystified especially after all the things we’ve done to help her.

I agree Whiff, buy cards and write your own message. I always wonder what go are told about us and why they don’t see us, Guess I will never know,

Smiles I solved the problem of card wording years ago after my husband died. I buy cards which are blank inside and choose for them for the picture on the front . My favourite place the last couple of years is Green Pebble an online store. Wide variety of cards by different artists and free quick delivery.

Used one of the cards as part of a friend's Christmas present last year I framed it. She loved it.

Thank you Spring, our last rehearsal this evening before Friday.

TBH I am feeling rather anxious because of Covid but would hate to let everyone down by not being there. Double jabbed and boostered so hopefully all will be well.

It's odd isn't it how as time goes by, for those of us who are estranged we can see how despite the loss and the pain that goes with it, it's better than being on that horrible emotional roller coaster that so often precedes it.

You notice how the wording in so many cards for example is inappropriate. I bought Christmas cards for our GC and it was really hard to find ones that weren't about 'all the fun we'll have' and even worse 'all the fun we've had already' and 'the joy you bring into our lives'.

Maybe there's a market for cards from GP's to their EGC and from P's to their EAC.

Estrangement is a journey as many here have posted, but like Whiff can honestly say the zero contact now is a relief. No more trying to find a suitable Christmas card, wondering what to write in the card, worrying about finding the right gifts even though go unacknowledged, worrying if making contact has created more tension. All now gone. Is what EC chose. We respect that and move on in peace. And somehow there seems to be a dignity in this.
Have a fab concert Smiles…..we’re joining carol singers on Fri evening, Covid restrictions permitting. If not will enjoy listening on Classic fm - one of my favourite stations too Whiff!
Petit Fromage - heartbreaking for you, I’m sure, to be worrying what your daughter is going through. As I see it though, if you can keep strong boundaries and not give more money, even though things may get rockier, it’s also likely the end of this nightmare may be speeded up too. So much wisdom and courage needed….your family are in my thoughts.

Petit Fromage I am so sorry to hear that things are difficult again. I do think that your daughter is caught up in a coercive relationship with someone who has major problems. I do think that her actions are not about you or what you have done but about keeping "him" happy as coercion is insidious, demoralising and means that someone being coerced cant see the wood for the trees even though they may say things that suggest they can! That is not an excuse for her "collaboration but it could be an explanation.

Please do look after yourself and do take care. Standing back is the only way to go really but although I do understand that you don't want your other daughters upset, I do also think that you need their support. And do consider how they might feel if they find out further down the line just what you have been putting up with again. Let them look after you!

Thanks Whiff I've passed your suggestion about the onto Mr. S..

Jam is one of the few things I've never made, but a friend gave me a recipe for lemon curd yesterday which I'll give a go as I love it, as does DS, not that he'll be here to sample it.

It's good that you're going to do what you must for the sake of your mental health PF. I'm so desperately sorry that the situation appears to have taken a wrong turn. Let's hope it's temporary.

TBH I found it very hard to know what to post yesterday as I'm sure we all do from time to time. We want to support one another and sometimes that means saying something that the one we want so much to support, may find upsetting. It may be something they haven't thought of, or they have but don't want to hear from someone else.

I'm glad, if you know what I mean, that you also feel money may be a contributory factor. I wasn't sure whether I should mention it as it's nothing more than a gut feeling.

I know that what ever the future brings you will be able to deal with it dear friend. Standing back is the right thing for now. "but the moments were still special and frozen in time"; a beautiful thing to say.

Thank you Smiles and Whiff for your lovely messages, I think you are right that money may be a contributory factor, either that or SIL just wants to torment me. I don't know how DD can collaborate in such cruelty, given that she must know how much I am mourning the loss of DH.

I have reached the stage where I need to stand back for the sake of my own mental health, something which Smiles has navigated successfully and is a great inspiration to us all.

Whiff, I understand the pain over the photographs, but the moments were still special and are frozen in time.

Purplepixie enjoy your time with your younger son. Enjoy every minute and don't give your older son a thought. Not easy I know but you need to have fun with your loving son .

Very glad you didn't knock on your daughter's door. She has hurt you enough don't let her hurt you anymore.

And then enjoy doing your paintings after Christmas. If you are like me you find peace doing something you love. And by concentrating on what you are doing you don't dwell on your troubles. Also time flies by.

I cross stitch just finished a dragon I was doing for my sister in law's 60th birthday next month. Took me 3 months. I posted it on the cross stitch thread . Ok blowing my own trumpet but an pleased how it turned out.

PetitFromage sorry you won't be able to see your new grandson. My son's youngest was one in July I don't even know his name or exact date of birth. Only picture I have of him is a 20 week scan. I have given him a name because it hurt to much to think of him without one. I image he looks like his brothers.

Like Smiles said we are here for you. That's what I love about being here is we can say how we feel . And know we are not alone .

Spring glad your visit went well. I know if my son ever got in touch I would never be able to relax as I can never forgive him and will never trust him again. I would just be waiting him to do the same thing again. So zero contact has made it easier for me. His choice not mine. I bet he didn't think I wouldn't try to contact him after he sent the presents etc back with that letter. But he wants zero contact and his got it.

Have noticed reading various posts how many parents have helped their children out with money. I have never done that. Simple reason haven't got any to spare. Even when both couples got married I did offer but it would have been only a couple of hundred but both refused as they had a budget they where working from . I was very proud of them . Both where wonderful days. 10 years ago for my daughter and son in law and 6 for son and daughter in law. My mom danced at both weddings. I have a wonderful photo of mom and my son dancing at my daughter's wedding they where laughing. But can't look at it.

Smiles hope your rehearsal goes well today. And Mr S has some flowers for you after Friday's concert. I expect a standing ovation and very loud clapping and calls for an on-call. I went to the U3A meeting yesterday afternoon. But didn't enjoy it and left after 25 mins as I was coughing a lot. It was jazz Christmas songs but the guitar and bass was so loud they drown out the singer . If it had said it was jazz I won't have gone. My favourite music is classical all types. Classic FM goes on as soon as I wake up until lunch time then put the TV on.

This shows how little my son carers he knew February last year after I had an echocardiogram that there was a problem with my heart. Should have had a bubble echo in March but had it in May where they found out I was born with a heart defect. If my son had opened his card in August last year he would have known that. Will never understand where my loving and caring son went. The son who wrote that email and letter I don't know. And to be honest if he was a stranger in the street and treated his mother the way he has treated me I wouldn't have anything to do with him.

Spending Christmas at my daughter's and her in law's will be there . I get on very well with them they are lovely company. I didn't know until Sunday what was happening at Christmas as I never assume I would be with them. My daughter said of course you will be with us silly. She and her eldest fetched me from the hospital. He fell asleep as some as they left their road and only woke when they got back home and asked where Nannie was. She was having a cuppa and late lunch.

Making blueberry jam today. Then tomorrow chocolate brownies for my craft group on Thursday. As don't think I will be going next week as my brother and sister in law are coming to visit before Christmas.

There exchange should have gone through on Friday. Then yesterday. But the buyer of their buyer wants to exchange and complete on the same day and he says no. So he has told his solicitor and estate agent if exchange doesn't happen today the house goes back on the market. They will probably lose the bungalow but he says they will find another one. He is fed up with being messed about. But I did warn him what it would be like.

As I have rambled enough. Have a good day everyone. ?

BlueBalou so sorry about your daughter's sudden change of heart! Do you think she might be having some sort of mental health crisis, feeling paranoid perhaps? It might not be anything you've done. I feel my son's problems are mainly from MH and drug taking, spending time with the wrong people online who fill his head full of stupid ideas. Maybe your daughter has similar or is influenced by someone else?

So glad all went well with your choir, Smileless

Good afternoon everyone and thanks for all of the encouraging messages yesterday. It went very well. Our choir master was really pleased and everyone seemed to enjoy it.

One more full rehearsal on Tuesday before our big concert on Friday evening, which Mr. S. will be attending so I'll have to avoid looking at him.

I agree about the stress of moving Whiff. Now you've exchanged contracts you should be able to relax and enjoy Christmas Yogin.

Great news about being discharged from the AF clinic Whiff. You're obviously doing all of the right things when it comes to looking after yourself so carry on with the good work.

A warm welcome to the support thread BlueBalou. It's always sad when someone new comes along who is living with the curse of estrangement.

You really have had a very tough 18 months, and what with your D's behaviour and the forthcoming major surgery for your husband, it's no wonder you're feeling so low.

It does seem very strange behaviour as Madgran has said, but if she's refusing to have contact with you, how are you supposed to know what's going on? Has she said anything at all to your H that may shed some light?

I only changed and fed our eldest GC once PP; never even got to see his brother. Your Christmas tree looks lovely. It's hard to find the will to put up decorations this time of year when all the pain and longing of estrangement is heightened, but we need to keep getting on with our lives, as best we can.

Oh PF I'm so sorry. It looks very much as if your s.i.l.'s hold over your D is as strong as it ever was and, I'm so sorry to say this, that he'll never be happy with her having anything like a close relationship with you.

It looks as if he's still holding onto the past, so he can use it in an effort to come between you, conveniently overlooking all the positive steps you have taken and all that you have done, and to continue to do, to be in your D's and GC's lives. I'm sorry to say that she appears to be overlooking this too.

For no particular reason, my overall feeling when reading the link you've provided is that once again money is the issue here. I seem to remember that your D initiated contact and very soon after ward, you and your DH were asked for a loan, which I think has never been repaid. There was also I think some urgency about your H's estate being sorted out.

I have always told you that IMO reconciling with your D took great courage on your part because it did. You made no secret of the fact that you were afraid to love your GC in case this ever happened again, and I get the sense from your post on MN that you feel you are on the verge of no man's land. On the periphery of her's and the children's lives, unsure of how this will go, and understandably terrified that it will once again all fall apart.

My advice FWIW is to wait for her to contact you. I understand your concerns about the forthcoming birth because of the problems she's had previously, and of course she will be very worried too but if you can, give it several days maybe a week, and if she doesn't get in touch, perhaps a short text.

I hope and pray that this is a blip, brought on by her understandable anxiety as the birth gets nearer, only time will tell. If it's more than that, if it's more mind games then only you know whether you have the strength to play them for the long term.

Take care dear friend, stay strong and don't ever think that by sharing with us here when you need us, that you'd be "hijacking this thread".

We survived the visit from relatives in touch with EC - didn’t mention them. Not sure how I feel, a bit numb, but at least am still standing and not as broken as I felt a week ago. Thanks to you all for your good advice. Welcome Blue Balou. So sorry you are here, but it is a good place to be. I agree with others that I wouldn’t do anything in haste, but I’d be careful about moving close to DD……if this blows over, great, but if not it will be heartbreaking on so many levels.

Good morning Warrior Queens. I am pleased that you are on the mend Whiff, but sorry to hear of your latest dilemma DSL. I think we could do with Smiles to sing to us!

Unfortunately, things have taken an unexpected turn for the worse with DD, and I fear that I will not be able to see my DGS when he is born. I started a thread on MN last night, where I have previously received amazing support, and am posting a link, in case anyone is interested (I know, I know, I am being lazy, but also seeking specific advice for my self rather than hijacking this thread!)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4424975-I-dont-think-I-will-be-allowed-to-see-my-new-grandchild?pg=2

Thank you Whiff - I do get a lot of pleasure from painting. I have a couple of ideas for paintings over the christmas break once my youngest son has gone back to his flat. I am sooooo looking forward to seeing him some time next week. He is such a love. No word from my eldest son even though he said he would phone me one night last week. I wont give up yet and will probably phone him some time this week. I have their presents and cards but why should it always be me that runs after them? I know my mam wouldn’t have been like that with me but I wouldn’t have been so horrible to her. What is going on? I passed my daughters house last night and I could see the tree all light up. So wanted to knock and go in but she wouldn’t have opened the door and then it would have been another scene in front of my lovely grand daughters. Life is so hard at this time of year. Sending hugs to all warriors out there.

Allsorts My present under the tree is for me from my very best friend. She always sends it at the beginning of the month. I have knitted her a cowl with some other little goodies to go with it. I don’t know what I would do without her as she keeps me sane. My mam and her mam were in beds side by side at the maternity hospital. We went to different infant/junior school but met up at secondary school and became firm friends. Lost touch and caught back up in 2007. We might live 200 miles from each other but we are there for each other.

Thank you all for your kind words.

Your tree is lovely Purplepixie. You should post more of your paintings.

I am so glad I moved into a bungalow. With my extra health problems I could never have coped in my house.

When our children were young and they were naughty it was no TV or treats. Now they are adults the best thing we can do is live the life we want and sod them. They turned their backs on us we didn't do that to them. They won't expect that. I for one won't let my son make me miserable . Did that when he first threw me away.

The worst thing to happen to me was my husband dieing. Nothing my son and daughter in law have done comes close to that. I promised him to live the best life I can. And I cherish all the promises I made my husband.

I have wobbles but won't let them make me sad anymore. That's what our children want .

With eachother we are Warrior Queens. And owe it to ourselves to be happy.

Went to AF clinic today and have been discharged into my GPs care. But will see me if I have any problems . Said I will see the cardiologist in about 4 times with the results of my heart MRI. So today's been a really good day.

Take care everyone.

Blue Balou. So sorry to hear this. Hope it's just a temporary blip. Perhaps your DH might be able to find out more. Hope his surgery goes ok.

Just try to focus on yourselves for now, have a quiet Christmas and try not think about the future just now.

Re the more ......take it slowly. If you really are going to move to an area you dont know then maybe rent for a while just to make sure it meets your requirements.

For what it's worth my advice would be to try not to act in haste. Let your husband fully recover first.

Look after yourselves.