SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Yogin - stay sane! Hopefully you'll look back on this in a few weeks/months and see it was well worth it

Whiff, your childhood Christmas sounds so special and full of love. How great your husband could see and experience how it could be done so differently. We didn't have much money, but I remember my Dad producing an enormous (to a child) box of chocolates every year on Christmas eve, which was so exciting and we all loved. It often had a picture of a country cottage and fields on the front.
I think last year we all learnt that a simple Christmas without guests or visitors isn't the end of the world.....and in many ways, really nice, as it can make the reason we celebrate more meaningful. I saw a notice this week saying that the first Christmas was very simple....so we shouldn't worry if ours is too! Hope the booster doesn't affect you too much....if it does, it soon passes, and will be doing its job! Take care.

Morning all

Thank you Whifff & Spring

When I had your situation for Xmas day Whiff I went to my DD m&d-in-laws for Christmas dinner, had a lovely time.

The moving situation is hell!!

Onward my husband loved Christmas he went over the top. Because growing up Christmas was always low key at his parents. Some years they didn't have a tree. How can you not have a tree with a child in the house. When we where courting used to take it in turns to have tea at parents altering between Christmas and Boxing day. When I went to his parents there where 4 squares of chocolate in a dish one each .

My parents where complete opposite. Christmas was huge the whole house was decorated. Boxes and tubs of chocolates all over the place .Mainly because my dad didn't know what a real Christmas was like until he met mom. Nan and grandad didn't have much money so decorations where made out of newspapers. They had a little tree . But Christmas was filled with fun ,laughter and love.

Growing up our house was all decorated. They had a long sideboard. Dad made a winter scene made with cotton wool and foil for a pond . Lots of plastic figures. Skaters suck to the pond with plasticine . The other half was a nativity scene. He made a stable had all the figures and animals in it.

It broke his heart when we told him when I was 16 my brother 15 we where to old for the sideboard. But when we had our daughter he was thrilled he could do it again.

Because my husband loved Christmas so much. I have always had my tree and decorations. My husband dieing broke my heart and it's never mended. I still feel half of me is missing . Will be 18 years in February since he died.

I made a pact with myself if I wanted to be upset I did it Christmas Eve so I could enjoy my Christmas day. Would never allow myself to get upset on Christmas day.

What my son and daughter in law have done doesn't come anyway near losing my husband .

I miss my son and grandson's every day . But it was his choice not mine. I had no idea what he was going to do.

Put my tree up on the first of December like we always did. I put the lights on and leave it until my grandson's come to decorate it.

Christmas 2019 it was my grandson's with my son who decorated the tree. My daughter's boys have done it since since.

My grandson's are all young my son's boys are 5,3 and 1. My daughter's are 4 in January and 1 last month.

I get through Christmas because I have lots of happy memories of Christmas's past . Don't know what is happening Christmas day as by rights my daughter and family should be spending it with her in law's this year. As they where here last year.

But doubt very much she will let me be on my own. Have done that once and I was fine and enjoyed myself.

You just have to decide to enjoy yourself it's only one day out of the year . And there is always done good telly programmes. Especially kids films which I love.

I know it probably doesn't help but don't know really what to say.

Like most things in life I just get on with it . As I don't intend to kick the bucket any day soon. And I am happy . Have wobbles like we all do. But my wobbles are mainly missing my husband.

Covid booster this morning.

Smiles hope you are feeling better after yours. ?

Whiff your tree looks really lovely! How wonderful that you had help to decorate it from your GC! I'm so sorry that this will be your second Christmas estranged. It will be my first. Do you have any tips to get through it?
Yes I think covid has given the ES a chance to get rid of their parents! Mine told me I wasn't a relative anymore since the covid jab had altered my DNA!

Spring I'm so sorry, that's so painful. Maybe you can have this one conversation with your guest and agree to never speak of it again? It may be that your EC is deliberately using that relative to score points, knowing it will cause pain. If our EC do visit sites like these, perhaps it will help them see our point of view. I have said some potentially identifying things lately, which I probably shouldn't.

Oh Smileless "no family support!" What was he thinking? I hope your MiL had something to say to him about it. It must have been quite a shock to find out that after he had been disinherited that he had inherited after all. Good that he saw his Grandma and didn't cut everyone off like my son and many others have done.

Whiff - the tree looks really lovely
Sounds like a fun afternoon with your grandsons.
Yogin - I admire your sister being open with you. The fact that your EC hasn't been in touch with her since, is the situation all near relatives face, I guess, which is why estrangement screws up so many family relationships. People are forced to make a choice. People get hurt.
I'm wary of saying too much here, as I know my EC regularly visits sites like this, but I have other children who aren't estranged, who like us struggle to understand the bombshell that dropped. Perhaps as a family we weren't/aren't good enough at communicating openly.
Yogin - good to hear that you can now hear news of your EC without the deep hurt. I think this says what we're all learning - that over time we do grow stronger and more accepting of what is. It's almost as if only when hope of reconciliation dies, do we begin to rebuild ourselves and our lives. I hope news of your move comes through soon - the 'not knowing when' must be difficult. Take care everyone!

Yogin have been reading your moving woes on the other thread. I don't post there very offer now. I moved in 2019. But it's how I joined Gransnet when I had 2 buyers pull out on me one day of exchange and second 4 days before exchange. Never moving again .

I hope you have an exchange and completion date very soon. My brother and sister in law plus her dad are going through buying and selling. They were hoping to move before Christmas. Did warn him it's not as straight forward as estate agents say. He knows what I went through .

Estrangement and moving house what and awful combination.

Thinking about it if my son had decided to dispense with me before my move I would still have have to my bungalow. I couldn't stay where I was it I rattled round that big house and knew I couldn't cope if my health got worse.

It's has gotten worse so good job I moved. But no matter what life throws at me I just get on with.

That's what this thread is all about no matter what our children do we get on with living our lives to the full. If we didn't then they win. I dammed if I will let my son and daughter in law win. They can crow all they like. They haven't defeated me. Ok I have wobbles but they don't stop me living my life.

All on here have given me the courage and strength to do that. Thank you. ?

Morning all

Can't put my Xmas deco up as may get our moving date this week, I really hope it's left till after Xmas now. I always get a real tree, love the smell. I have put two branch clusters with little lights & reflecting baubles up each side of my fireplace which looks very festive.

Spring so sorry for your dilemma. My s.i.l & D cut me out just before Xmas 2012. The next May it was my cherished little GD birthday, my sister phoned to say she was invited to the party and was just sounding me out, I said I can't tell you whether to go or not, but there is only one reason they want you there! She didn't go and hasn't heard from them since.

My son that lives with me now, after following his sister into estrangement for 6yrs, is still in contact. We get the odd snippet from him, usually when my other DD asked about them. At this stage of estrangement I can hear and not get upset, in fact quite nice to hear what their up to, but as I said, only little snippets. When first estranged I would have been upset talking about them as a third party, with me out of their lives, when we used to be so close.

Smiles hope you and Mr S are feeling better after your jabs. Got my Covid booster in the morning. Already decided to rest tomorrow. As quiet a few people I know who had the booster felt worse than they did have the first 2 jabs. Luckily had my flu jab weeks ago.

I was in 2 minds whether a or not to post the picture of my tree that my grandson decorated for me. But thought it might cheer you up. He did it Friday . I put on the lights and my 5 delicate decorations. He did the rest by himself all the way round . He used my stool to reach the top. His little brother enjoyed taking some off.

Spring glad you had a nice lunch with your friends. Estrangement is hard especially if you don't know why your child or children have turned against you. If it wasn't for Smiles and everyone else I wouldn't be like I am now. I have wobbles but just get it out of my system and it's over with.

This will be my second Christmas without my son and grandson's. Seeing my daughter's boys with the tree brought it home what I am missing . But I am lucky I have my daughter and her family in my life and get to see them every week.

I was thinking this week I wondered if Covid gave some estranged child an excellent time to get rid of their parents?

Sorry you aren't feeling great Smileless. Hope it soon passes. We had our boosters on Tuesday and also felt unwell. Fine the following day though. Really admire the boundaries you have in place to protect yourselves, including moving away from the daily hurt. Yesterday was a bad day for us, but today feeling more positive. I do believe it's possible to build not just a good life, but a happy life even when living with estrangement. It just sometimes needs us to be proactive in managing situations. Having said that, today we were invited to lunch by an acquaintance, together with another couple. Although we didn't know them, we all got on so well, had a lovely time, and it was only when I got back I realised no one had mentioned children. There'd been no pressure/stress points/awkward situations to negotiate. How odd/hilarious your ES should comment on no family support. Maybe one day he will join the dots in his thinking! But who knows what goes on in their heads. Today, I'm simply thankful for the good things I do have, the simple pleasures of life, and the people who want to know and love us.
That is more than enough, even on the down days. I hope we can all take comfort in these things as we negotiate this more difficult time of year. And I haven't got our decorations up yet either....but look forward to doing so this week, accompanied by Alexa playing carols, and a mulled wine!

Yes it was a shock Spring. I really felt for his sister who was executor having to tell him because the solicitor needed contact details. She knew he'd emailed us when our mums died, mine last year and Mr. S'.s in August and asked if we would contact him.

We declined and passed his contact details onto the solicitor as instigating any contact with him is not something we would do.

I do understand that feeling of betrayal. I know Mr. S. felt it too but of course never told his mum how he felt, just told her to have any news of our ES was too upsetting.

There was one occasion before he asked her not to tell him when our ES had visited her when our second GC was just a few months old, that they had hadn't had a decent night's sleep for 5 years because they had no family support. Now that was worth knowing and did make us laugh.

IMO "no knowing is the lesser of 2 evils. The best self care." which is why we moved away 5 years ago. Not far, but far enough to ensure we would never see them.

Had my booster and flu jab yesterday and feeling decidedly under the weather today. A bad night with my arms feeling very heavy and uncomfortable, and this morning simple feeling drained.

We'd planned to put up all the decs today but it may not happen. It takes ages so may have to wait for another day.

Allsorts - realise I misread your post. Yes, it is true that EC has chosen the relative over us. And yes it really hurts, especially as is no desire from EC to engage to try to move things to a better place.

Thanks for all your love and care… and wise words! I don’t feel we can stop this visit, but much as part of me would like to know more, I’m sure you’re right that it’s best not to allow any conversation about EC at all. Yes it does feel our relative has chosen EC over us…..or at the very least, it feels a betrayal. The weekend isn’t going to be easy, to say the least. Feeling better for being on here though, amongst those who are living this. Smiles, Mr S seems to have managed a similar situation really well. It can’t have been easy to discover visits happened after he thought they’d stopped though. But like me, maybe not knowing is the lesser of 2 evils. The best self care.

You can say no but that depends on how you feel about this relative before and after estrangement??

I'd make it clear before they came to stay,that no conversation will be taking place about your EC as that causes you too much grief and pain... if that's the way you feel.... No harm protecting yourself from upset..

Id be very clear about that.

I agree it wouldn't be right to ask them to sever contact Spring but perfectly reasonable for you to say before they come or as soon as they arrive, that you don't want them to talk about your EAC.

Mr. S. knew that our ES was occasionally visiting his mum. He told her in the end that he didn't want to hear about it as it was too upsetting; she never mentioned it again.

When the visits stopped, she dis inherited him; her decision and nothing to do with us. She died in August and Mr. S. learned that she'd re instated him in her will, so he must have been seeing her again but as I've said, she never mentioned it.

Smileless, I’d sent a heartfelt letter to EC a while back asking if anything could be done to repair the relationship. The same week the relative also got in touch with EC without telling us, not knowing we’d written. EC sent a gushing response to the relative….and ignored my letter, which really hurt. The relative told us about the response they’d had, thinking it would be good news. A few weeks later we told them how hard it had been to deal with this. Since then the subject hasn’t been mentioned between us, but the relative has told another family member news of EC, so we know they are in touch. Tbh I’m afraid of the blunt conversation beforehand- are you in touch with EC? I can’t ask them not to be - that’s not right, but hearing it will be hard. Such a mess - crazy how moments like this suddenly appear out of nowhere to bite us all over again. You are right though - we feel the relative should have spoken with us before making the approach.

Spring, I’m probably not going to have many agreeing with me, but I couldn’t have them to stay. To hear from them how my own child is, that she chooses them over me, no I couldn’t do it it would hurt too much, plus I would let myself down as they would see how I felt, I’m a lousy poker player.

Not wishing to cause offence Spring but why didn't this relative tell you from the beginning that they were in contact with your EAC?

If they were worried about how you might feel, surely they'd have taken that into account before making the move to reconnect.

I agree that an open and honest conversation is the best way forward and still think it would be better to have that conversation before they arrive.

The truth can often be subjective Spring so please take care and protect yourself.

Spring what an awful position to be in. At least my son made it easy he has cut all ties with our side of the family . No treading on egg shells for anyone.

LoveOc is right you need to look after yourself.

Do you want to be all upset and then they report that back to your child ? Would your child be pleased to hear you where upset and would they see it as a victory.

You have been put in a terrible predicament. Which isn't fair. My heart goes out to you. ?

LoveOc - your message has made me cry. We suspect the relative is on the way to visit EC, and feels the need out of decency to let us know, possibly in case we later find out. They aren’t a bad person….just naive and getting their own needs met in this. That’s what makes it so hard, and why it would be v hard to tell them not to come, as we don’t want to cause upset in the relationship with them. Even though is always now an underlying level of mistrust. Don’t let them come is so obviously the right thing to do to save ourselves from being hurt further. But I think we will have to go through with this one, and save that for next time. Maybe an open conversation about what is really going on/their involvement may clear the air, hard though it will be. At least we’d know the truth.

Spring20 do not have them stay. Why put yourself through it? They have made their decision. You are entitled to make yours. Your decision need to be 'look after yourself'.

could iAww hugs are always nice Smileless

So sorry for your dilemma Spring I'd probably not want them to come but if it was unavoidable, I'd do as Smileless says and tell them before they come that you know and won't be discussing it. Could it be possible that your ES has initiated contact with this relative and may be using them to talk to you on their behalf?

Just seen your second post Spring. IMO it would be wrong to ask them to stop but as you've said it was them that initiated the contact having also been estranged by your AC, I would definitely tell them you know before they come, and you don't want them to talk about it.

Oh dear that's tricky Spring.

You have 3 options. You can make an excuse and not have them to stay, or you can tell them that you know they have regular contact with your EC and you don't want them to mention it, or you can allow them tell you that they have contact and then say you don't want them to talk about it.

If it were me, I would tell them before they come that you know and don't want the matter raised.

Yes Onward bless him, he kept giving me a hug.

Following on….I wish they weren’t in contact with EC but is it right to ask them to stop? They initiated renewed contact with EC after several years of no contact.