SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

I'm probably not going to pass it on. I already did pass on one to his wife, stupidly paid the postage to send it to her even though our address was on the envelope (I didn't twig, stupidly) and not a word of thanks. I didn't open hers, but when an identical DVLA one came for my son I was a bit suspicious because they haven't lived at our address for a long time. I peeked (yes, I know I shouldn't have) and the DVLA sent him a cheque. I'm a bit confused why- unless they were applying for licenses wrongly, been found out and refunded.
I'm now in a tricky position because he refuses to have anything to do with me- and I know I shouldn't have peeped. He shouldn't be using our address (the penalty is £1000 if he was found out) So we are both in the wrong.

That's the third time today I've done itposted on here and forgotten to thank you Spring for your post.

It's good to know that our chatter, whether it's happy, sad, reflective or just plain daft is helping people we had no idea were reading this thread.

I received a pm the other day saying the exact same thing and it makes me proud to be a poster on this thread and a member of the 'Warrior Queen Gang'.

Just realised in my last post I put 'there's never been a support thread' when of course I meant to say 'there's been a support thread ever since; stupid woman.

"Better out than in" absolutely Onward. It takes courage to write about something so painful, to be able to share it with other.

if that were my son I would return the unopened letter to the DVLA writing on the envelope that he doesn't reside at this address. You need to be very careful about passing in on to him in case you inadvertently get mixed up with whatever's going on.

If you do, you wont be getting him into trouble, he'll be doing that all by himself.

Thats what my husband said, but its a bit more complicated...Can I message you?

OnwardandUpward tricky idea. Makes me wonder what he is hiding from the DVLA. Also if he got stopped by the police and asked to see his licence and it has your address on it that's also fraud.

If it was me I would write no one of this name at this address and put it back in the post box.

Thanks Whiff, I have finally accepted what happend and have no shame in talking about it because Im not the one who should be ashamed, I now know

I'm so sorry for your dear husband, having had such cruel parents. Thank goodness he had your parents to show him real parental love! I too have had real kindness from my in laws. Thank God there are people that exist who see the good in me and did in your husband too, Whiff ! It is sad that it cannot be the two people who brought us into the world. Why do people have children if they are unable to love them? I would have been better growing up in care, I think.

I like the way you brought your kids up Whiff, it's how I brought mine up too. They always knew they were loved. Like you, having lost a son doesn't mean I don't love him still, either. My son also can't face me, but seems quite happy to (fraudulently) use our address for his DVLA correspondance. A letter came addressed to him from them and I am trying to decide what to do. Last time post came I forwarded it to them, but recieved no acknowledgement or thanks and I am not his secretary!!! If he wants to talk to me, fine. But he's not and I'm thinking of returning it to the DVLA this time and enclosing his REAL address. Apparently the fine is £1000 for using a false address. I don't want to get him in trouble, but I also don't want to be making it easier for him to commit fraud on our address, if that's what he's doing. Tricky!

Yes it's good to be honest and let it out. It's not good to bottle feelings up. Better out than in!

OnwardandUpward sorry you suffered so much . But you have triumphed. You are a strong courageous woman. You have shown that by writing about your experiences. I feel very lucky to have had the parents I did. Both my brother and I were the centre of our parents world. Mom and dad never had well paid jobs but we were rich in love , attention and happiness. Dad never knew what a real family was until he met mom.

Unfortunately my husband's parents where horrible. He was never good enough . They didn't give him the love and attention he deserved. He worked hard all his life and did well for himself. But never once did they say I am proud of you son. But my parents gave him everything his own parents denied him. He was loved and cherished by them until he died. It broke something inside them when he died.

His own mother after he died denied she ever had a son or had 2 grandchildren. And no it wasn't grief it was wickedness. She told people about her daughter who died when she was 12 and my husband was 5.

But all my extended family became my husband's family. They all loved him .

We decide as parents to have children . For loving parents our children become our world's. Both our children had everything my husband was denied . Not material things but told everyday they where loved and how proud we where of them. Don't get me wrong if they were naughty they got told off. But we never held things against them.

I have said about how different my dad's and husband's upbringing was. To my mom's and mine.

For all my son has hurt me theres not a minute I regret having him. But I know if he had to face me and said to me all things he put in his email and letter he couldn't do it. That's why he took the cruel and cowardly way out. And that was beneath him. He is a better man than that.

DerbyshireLass you where right to never forgive your father. I hated my in laws until they died I never forgave them for hurting my husband and how they treated us as a family. I will never forgive my son and daughter in law . But don't hate them . I don't feel guilty a bit about my feelings. I don't have anything to feel guilty about. Neither do you. No one has the right to criticise they don't know what you suffered. The same goes for everyone else who has suffered at the hands of their parents and or their children.
Only you know what it feels like. And having this place to come to means we don't have to hide our feelings we can be honest and know we are not alone.

Madgran, yes I'm almost sorry to keep mentioning it! I just really was curious to know if anyone else has had this said to them before and so far, no one has owned up! I guess by now someone else would have said if it had been said to them, so I also guess it makes my parents especially evil? I always thought it was "normal" to be treated like that, so even now as an older person, I'm actually surprised to find that no one else is saying it too.

I mean... really surprised.

Smileless, it's shocking isn't it. I am no one's Golden Child but my Grandparents loved me, at least, so I have known unconditional love as a child when I visited them.

Yes I do think that the Golden Child has often had everything handed to them on a plate, to the point that they feel entitled to special treatment and have never learned to have compassion for anyone else. If they had compassion, they could not stand by while their parents victimised the scapegoat or played favourites. Very often it seems that the Golden Child seems dissatisfied and shows no gratitude for what has been done for them, even though they have had favour that no one else has.

Derbyshirelass yes they should. I am longing for the day when one of them is stupid enough to say it in my husband's hearing. I'm so sorry about how your Father treated you, that is shocking and heartbreaking. Similar to how my Dad has treated me. He does not even want to be seen with me in public because he might be exposed for the horrid things he tells people about me. I know, he will slip up one of these days. He's getting older and more mentally challenged so he will find it harder to keep his lies in order.

It's something that your Dad tried to apologise, Derbyshiregirl. I doubt if mine will, and like you say so much damage has been done already. It would have been nice if he was genuinely sorry. In your position I would not be pleased either. I would probably suggest he talked to a priest if he wanted to do a confession as I would not believe him and not want to be in that position of having to be "nice" to someone who has treated me also like a second class citizen for my whole life. I don't think badly of you Derbyshiregirl, I get it.

Onward I have not seen you talk about that dreadful comment to you before. I am so sorry and it is good that you are moving forward more positively despite the pain.

Derbyshire so sorry you faced it too, and I admire you for that response to you elderly dad.

CrazyH Your comment was a compliment to N but it feels wrong that it was not balanced with positive comments about your other children. Maybe it would be worth thinking about the positives in all your children, despite past difficulties, and making a point of telling them in public at the next opportunity.

Onward and upward.......how shocking that your parents say that to you. They should hang their heads in shame.

crazyH. Reading your post about what you said about your son, out loud and in public, triggered some very unhappy memories for me too.

My father did and said things along those lines to me.....I'll spare you the details, suffice it to say that I was made the family scapegoat, my sister was the golden child. He constantly shamed and humiliated me in public, telling all and sundry that my sister was his favourite. And yes, usually when he was "in drink".

However, I will say this, a child doesn't need to be told they are the least favoured, they just know. So if your son is difficult and prickly it's because he KNOWS.

Even if you hadn't run off at the mouth like that, trust me, he knows, he didn't need you to embarrass and humiliate him. He will have known most of his life, without being told..

You say you love them all equally, and yet.......you said what you said. You say you were drunk.......but it's not an excuse. In vino veritas and all that. Drink just loosens the tongue, it doesn't change what we fundamentally think or feel.

There's an expression "you can't unring a bell once it has been rung". You have hurt him and you can't unhurt him but you can and should at least apologise, must try though, without excuses or any kind of self justification. You owe him that much but don't be surprised if he rounds on you. Some hurts just go too deep and he may well find it impossible to forgive you.

Towards the end of his life my father tried to say he was sorry......it was 60 years too late. I told him "it was water under the bridge" and left it that. But there was no way I could say I forgive you. Not after some 65 years of being treated like I was a second class citizen whilst he treated my sister like a Princess.

It wasnt my job to give him absolution.

And ......before anyone criticises me....no, I feel no guilt. He only wanted my forgiveness to salve his conscience, not because he was genuinely sorry.

It will be double digits Yogin we came on the first almost 9 years ago, and there's never not been a support thread ever since. As you know, we've had our ups and downs especially in the early years but GNHQ's decision to have an estrangement forum was a good one and I think that's really helped to keep this particular thread kind and supportive.

"perhaps I am a bit outspoken about my feelings" you're not alone there crazy. DS says I don't even have to open my mouth because what I'm feeling and thinking is written all over my face, and that's got me into all sorts of bother.

That's so often the case Onward the golden child being the less likely to step up and be there for their parents in their old age. I wonder why that is. Is it because they were given such an elevated position in the family that they think it's their right and have no need to 'earn' it?

It was only be being here on GN that I realised that for my mum, my brother was the golden child and I was my father's. We were a divided family in that respect. I knew my mum loved me just not as much as my brother, and despite him making a complete mess of everything which affected the last 10 years of her life very negatively, he remained her number one.

I know I will, thankyou Yoginimeisje

I'm not the middle child either, but in our family the middle child is one of the Golden Children, I was clearly singled out to miss out on all the opportunities the others had and to take the blame for everything bad in the family- but that only works if I accept it. So they are doomed, to either find another scapegoat or to finally look at themselves and see what's been going on all these years.

Despite all the bad stuff, I've never been the jealous type. Most of my life I was depressed feeling like everything must be my fault. But, as I have started to do well for myself, I encountered more bullying and opposition. I think very often, the Golden Child or Golden Children have been so entitled and enabled that they are very often not much good at having compassion for anyone especially ailing parents.

Middle child syndrome? My sister was the middle child and certainly the apple of my mum & dad's eye, the 'golden child'. They didn't broadcast it, but it was quite clear, didn't bother me, nor my brother. When my m&d needed help in their later years, it was I that stepped in, on an almost daily basis, to help them.

Onwards What a really terrible thing for your m&d to say to you, you'll go on to out live them all in the end ! I'm so sorry for your pain.

I suppose the saying "never put all your eggs in one basket" is quite apt here.

It doesn't pay to favourite. It doesn't pay to big up one kid and negatively compare them to the others. I'm not a great believer in Karma, but I'm sure every action has a consequence that will be revealed in time.

Parents who have scapegoated, like mine, were just too chicken to own their own feelings, but they cannot scapegoat someone who sees through every ploy. They were too short sighted and ignorant to realise that they couldn't just pile all the family blame and shame on one child and justfiy themselves.

Parents who have bullied are cowards who need to pick on someone they percieve to be weaker. They will get weak and elderly in time, so this is a huge mistake to bully someone they will need one day. Parents who get a high out of causing trouble and getting their kids to play the "Pick me" game because they have been made so insecure, are insecure themselves. The truth comes out in the end and the reason they will fight to stop you having therapy is in case you realise the truth. Well, I have.

I have come out of therapy seeing that it was never me. I was the product of a dysfunctional home. I was a lovely kid, a lovely baby and am a lovely adult. I am kind to people, including my dysfunctional parents who often behave in a very abusive way, even now. Like everyone here we deserve to be accepted for who we are and not negatively compared to someone we are not meant to be. We cannot be our sibling.

CrazyH It is counterproductive to compare your children negatively. It is not fair to them and if you choose to put all your eggs in one basket it may backfire on you.

Yes, there are posters on here suffering real emotional pain because one of their kids has cut them off. After all the things my parents have done to me, I really should have cut them off. I know the pain of being estranged by a child, though so I don't want to inflict that, however awful.

In the end it's pitiful for them because their Golden Child has let them down and will never , ever be there for them. I can't really say what this is without outing myself, but it's a huge life decision which means my parents will not get cared for by the Golden Child as they would have wished.

Poetically they will have to ask me. My sibling has dodged a bullet.

P.S.
Let’s get one thing straight, I love all my children equally. I treat them the same, but perhaps I am a bit outspoken about my feelings.

crazyH

I keep wondering, is there such a thing as middle child syndrome? My middle son definitely has it . It comes to the fore when he’s had a few drinks., I love them all, but my youngest N is very special - the sweetest natured boy /man you could find . At the Bonfire party, I had a couple of drinks and I said, in front of everyone “this world would be a better place, if there were more Ns in the world.” That touched a nerve I think with S . Well, it’s about time he faced the truth. He has been difficult , so has his older sister for that matter. The truth can’t be sugar coated. Everyone loves my youngest son, but the other two they can take or leave ?

Jeez, I would never have come out with a comment like that, especially in public.?

My two children were very different, still are, but they both have good and “not so good” qualities. Regardless, I love them equally. They are not perfect, but, then, neither am I. I expect I drive them nuts at times lol

Same with my 5 “blood related” grandchildren. All young adults, all different, and all a mixture of endearing and infuriating. My 5 step grandchildren are all different as well.

My mother treated my younger brother as the “golden child” when I was growing up, and it has caused problems over the years - especially when she needed care and support, and he couldn’t be bothered to do anything. ?

There are posters on here, suffering real emotional pain because one or more of their children has cut them off - be grateful that your three still want you in their lives.

Where people you love are concerned, the truth CAN be sugar coated.

It’s what we do as parents and GPs.

Well done Smileless on opening up yet another thread, how many now? Haven't read any posts yet, I'll make a coffee and come back to read them.

Just need to correct my last post on the last thread; It was 'pot' my estD H was high on, not cocaine, but he did also partake of the later. He smoked pot from the moment he got up till he went to bed again!

3 things you said on the last thread resonated with my DSL Yes I played into estD H hands, those were the exact words of my son at the time. Also feeling paralysed by it all, my brain was in high grieving mood and that's why I made the mistake of going to court, an action that would normally be a million miles from my normal reactions. Also about if you have to force it, don't go there, so many friends & family told me this in their own way, but I just couldn't hear them.

Thanks Smileless. I admit, yes I have posted it before. I have decided I will not keep these family secrets anymore. After almost a whole lifetime of thinking there was something the matter with me, I have realised its not me. Loving and normal parents do not have a deathwish on one of their kids. After much therapy, I realise that I am not mentally ill. There is nothing the matter with me. There IS something the matter with people who behave like my parents.

I have spent a life hiding away in shame because of lies that were projected onto me. I won't keep their sorry secrets anymore. I understand you don't know what to say and that's ok Smileless. Thanks for at least trying I guess I was trying to see if anyone out there had experienced this? If not, I suppose it's just me.

I think the thing with the middle child can be, they aren't the eldest and they aren't the baby, so they feel stuck in the middle. They never had their parents to themselves like the eldest did and had to make room for the youngest too.

My understanding is that middle child syndrome is a recognised term but with no clinical/psychological basis. The middle child can feel disadvantaged because of their place in the order of the family, and maybe treated differently/less favourably than their siblings, but not simply because their parents respond to them differently for that reason.

I hope if you haven't done so already crazy that you'll talk to your son about what happened. If he does feel disadvantaged because he's the middle child, this will only reinforce those feelings.

You've posted this before Onward about your parents saying you'll die before they do, among other things and every time I read it, it goes around and around in my head and makes me feel physically uncomfortable. Goodness knows what this is like for you, the constant cruelty and IMO an invalidation of your very existence.

I wish I could think of something else to say but I can't so I hope this BIG (((hug))) says the words I am unable to find x

I agree with you Whiff. I find this post quite triggering because I have been bullied .I would certainly not compare my kids negatively like that or try to play one off against the others because this type of negative comparision is the sort of nonsense I've had to deal with my whole life.
I have been told I'm fat, ugly, lazy, useless and will die early . They have never valued me for who I am, for what I bring to the world and they probably never will. There is no medical reason and nothing in our family to suggest that I will die early. I think it's either wishful thinking or plain bullying. I used to be very hurt by it, but now I raise an eyebrow and say " we shall see".

All of our children have different attributes, personalities and skills. If we cannot see any worth in them, we have no love towards them, making us unloving and hateful parents. I have two of these. Please try to find good in your kids CrazyH. You may need them someday and they deserve love for who they uniquely are.

Even though I am estranged from my son, I still see good in him. You are fortunate to have contact with all of yours, but you're hurting them.

@ CrazyH yes I do think there's such a thing as Middle Child Syndrome. I think many people think their youngest is special but showing it in front of the others is sure to cause jealousy.

My parents also favour the youngest, to the point that they have been telling me I'll die early and the youngest will be the answer to all their prayers. I don't know if it's normal to big up the youngest so much as my parents do, but the truth is that my sibling is not the answer to anyone's prayers as she has just become pregnant with multiple babies. Perhaps she would have been otherwise. Meanwhile, my parents have this death wish over me... They are forever saying I will die before them, but there is no rhyme or reason for it. I think it's favouritism and bullying. I also think they will be forced to accept help from me because my sister wants nothing to do with elderly care and has baby brain.

Smiles you and Mr S have a lovely break at the lodge. Bet the dogs soon went to their favourite spots.

crazyH sorry but if you still have close contact with all 3 of your children to me that wasn't a very nice thing to say infront of your other child or children. I would never dream of praising one child over the other and definitely not in public. It must have hurt them for you to say that.

We brought our children up equally. Even when our son was being a pain in the bum he was told off but would never say his sister was better than him.

Unfortunately how our children turn out as adults is up to them. Even though my son doesn't want anything to do with me and has hurt me deeply . I still love him and can't see that changing . He was so caring and loving . I no longer know who he is. But would never say what you did.
To me that was cruel ,drunk or not no excuse for saying that.

You are very lucky if you still see all 3 of your children.

If I still saw my son and daughter in law and 3 grandson's, and there had been no estrangement life would have continued as it did.

My son doesn't want me in his life. Ok made peace with that but have wobbles as I miss him and my grandson's very much. But he is a good man who works hard and loves his wife and sons very much. That hasn't changed.

It's me and all our side of the family he doesn't want in his life.

If you where looking for validation of what you said sorry you don't get it from me.

I keep wondering, is there such a thing as middle child syndrome? My middle son definitely has it . It comes to the fore when he’s had a few drinks., I love them all, but my youngest N is very special - the sweetest natured boy /man you could find . At the Bonfire party, I had a couple of drinks and I said, in front of everyone “this world would be a better place, if there were more Ns in the world.” That touched a nerve I think with S . Well, it’s about time he faced the truth. He has been difficult , so has his older sister for that matter. The truth can’t be sugar coated. Everyone loves my youngest son, but the other two they can take or leave ?