SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Agree whiff I hope DSLrealises how much her views are valued and acceptable on this thread.

We’ll always be warrior queens now.

The puzzlement wasn't about DSL posting on here, she has every right, as I already said, it was about saying 'walk in my shoes' & 'unless you've been estranged you can't understand' and then saying she saw her S&GC on Xmas day and the other son on Boxing day, so not estranged. I was estranged just before Xmas, I still have their Xmas gifts.

Because I am moving, I had to get them down from the attic, my DD suggested giving them to a new child in the family. There were two gifts bags the same; one for my GS & one for my GD, I was sure I knew which was which, I couldn't re wrap them as my DD suggested, I just couldn't do it, thought my heart would break if I did, knowing it should have been my darling little GC opening them, not me to give to another. I got it wrong and gave my GD presents to the little boy, a doll with long blonde hair with brush and hair clips and other girlie things! My b.i.l sent me a pic of my mistake, as they took them home to open. I then had to unwrap the other gifts in the same bag and send a pic back to say 'Oops, this is his presents, sorry! and then go on the re wrap the gifts I didn't want to see again.

@Yogi, I tend to agree. I used to occasionally visit this thread for insight. It has taken a decisively negative term with the perpetuation of this “Warrior Queen” business. It went from a support thread for “All dealing with estrangement” to “Come here if you hope for the downfall of your adult children”. It has taken a turn toward the vicious. How sad.

I do agree that DSL maybe take a step back from all the negative energy directed at your daughter in law. It seems as though you may have been previously too enmeshed with your son and his family, and they needed to put a bit of space. A lot of what you post imo is quite unjustifiable for a mum to post. You may be hurt, but going so far as to wish for the end of your son’s marriage is unhealthy. Others may think that supporting you in such thinking is helping you. It’s not. You will never be able to heal unless you occupy your heart and mind with more love and positivity. Your son is her husband, your grandchildren are hers before they are anything to you. Your son took a period of time to establish that his nuclear family was his priority. He did not estrange you. He may have different expectations than you of what your relationship should be at this point, but you are not estranged. Why not lean into the positivity of that reality? Be thankful you are not estranged. Let your daughter in law and your son live their lives without such hatred directed to them. Hatred doesn’t cure pain. You come here only to speak ill of his family. I pray you learn to accept that they have a right to be together one day. Love your family be thankful. Or at least come to terms with the fact that you cannot and should not wish to come between a young family.

To all, I have suffered through an actual long term estrangement. Finding the right counselor changed my life. The anger and resentment festering inside of me was often fed by rehashing the breakdown on a daily basis. Perhaps take some days where you give yourself a break from the burden of anger of the estrangement. It is spiritually liberating and definitely a step toward true healing. I saw on one of the threads by EAC that some like Allsorts and Smileless asked why EAC wouldn’t want to move on instead of constantly rehashing hurtful pasts. Why can we also not move on? We can! For that is truly what a Warrior Queen would do. Walking away from anger is easier said than done, but there are no threads in the world that help heal the way letting go of anger does. I wish you all positivity and healing!

DerbyshireLass please don't leave. You need us as much as we need you.

Like I said in my post you have changed so much from your first post . You seemed so lost but by being here you have grown stronger. As I know I have .

If you leave it's like those 2 imposter posters have won. I know it's not because if them you want to leave but because of a long term member of this thread.

But stay . There have been a number of new members of a club none of us wanted to join. Like the widow club we didn't want to join that club but a number of us are members of both.

I love the Warrior Queens mantra. It makes me smile the thought of Smiles leading us from her chariot with her spear and cape flying behind her.

I left a thread I had been on for 2 years after a run in with one of the posters there on a different thread and didn't want to be nice to her on the thread I loved being on. I pop on very rarely. But luckily keep in touch with a few via email from it.

I won't ever let anyone make me not want to stay on a thread I enjoyed again .

So you must stay. ?

Yes I understand where you’re coming from PF and I do agree. We’re living in such pain at times but we are trying to live up to the mantra “when they go low we go high.”
I really don’t want to be as hurtful and angry and cause mayhem to others. I try very hard ..?

ThIs time of the year is hard it’s family time and in our position no matter how many in the family visit us it’s the ones who are missing that are uppermost in your mind.

Happy new year to you PF I wish you happiness and joy.

QuoteDerbyshireLass Well that was a nice reply, I apologise for hurting you, never meant to and certainly don't want you to leave the page, I didn't know you'd had a 10 week gap not seeing your son, I had the same, a year before the estrangement. It was just that seeing you say you spent Xmas day with your son & GC and Boxing with your other son, I haven't seen mine since 2012. As for warrior queen, that is just my opinion, as I said, and as I have already said back post, a warrior queen I am not.

I've read your posts with interest and I have read PF with much interest too and replied with much sympathy and support as I have with similar posters who have been estranged and then reunited only to be estranged again. The poster I remember the most, I think she may have started the original thread 10yrs ago, she put the most heart breaking poem on about her lost GC. Her AS made it so difficult to see them, she even travelled to France to have one hour with her GC. I remember her saying she was walking up the beach and her little GD ran up and slipped her little hand in hers, and how her heart melted.

You mustn't leave the page because of what I said, after all it was a fact and I tried to put it in the nicest possible way, but clearly failed. So I'm sorry for that . Stay, I know everyone would want you to.

I am not sure why I posted 'Auld Lang Syne', save to say that, for me, it kindles memories of those I loved, the ghosts whom I cherish. In my melancholy and, as I remember, I believe that love and kindness transcend everything and, even if they don't, it is the only way to live.

Sorry if that sounds silly and pretentious! But we need to be kind, not only to those we love, but also to ourselves. If we try to practise love and kindness, even if we fail, we will have failed well - and our hearts will be at peace (or almost).

Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot
And days of auld lang syne?
For auld lang syne, my dear
For auld lang syne
We'll tak a cup o' kindness yet
For days of auld lang syne
We twa hae run about the braes
And pu'd the gowans fine
But we've wander'd mony a weary fit
Sin days of auld lang syne
And we twa hae paidl'd I' the burn
Frae morning sun 'til dine
But seas between us braid hae roar'd
Sin days of auld lang syne
For auld lang syne, my dear
For auld lang syne
We'll tak a cup o' kindness yet
For days of auld lang syne
And surely ye'll be your pint-stowp
And surely I'll be mine
And we'll tak a cup o' kindness yet
For auld lang syne
And there's a hand, my trusty fiere
And gie's a hand o' thine
And we'll tak a right gude-willy waught
For auld lang syne
For auld lang syne, my dear
For auld lang syne
We'll tak a cup o' kindness yet
For auld lang syne
For auld lang syne, my dear
For auld lang syne
We'll tak a cup o' kindness yet
For auld lang syne

DSL - please don't leave!! Your posts have been an inspiration for me. I am in a similar situation, as others have pointed out. I am reconciled, but not reconciled. As you so eloquently point out, the axe may fall at any time, it is 'no man's land', and it is an extremely difficult place to be. I am constantly on trial 'in absentia', with sentence of death liable to be pronounced for the smallest misdemeanour.

Sometimes the threat of something happening is worse than the thing itself. your son, like my DD, is under the influence of a malign influence and, whilst that influence remains, it is a question of walking on eggshells, negotiating an obstacle course etc. It is exhausting. and you do get to the point where you have to adapt your behaviours/boundaries, or you would go mad. I know, I have the tee shirt!

When I thought I had reconciled with my DD, like you, I wondered whether I should remain on the thread and, indeed, I posted much less often, although I still lurked. But Smileless, as ever, was so supportive, and encouraged me to stay. We are all on our respective 'journeys' and, if we can give a few tips. sketch a rough road map, it may just help someone else. You have certainly helped me.

You have so many friends here, your posts are so eloquent, the thread just would not be the same without you. The poster who upset you is someone whom I suspect is in a lot of pain, as so many are at this time of year, when we remember those whom we have loved and lost, living or dead. But it is often the case that the grass looks greener over the fence but, when you are closer, you see the weeds.

Please stay, pretty please!!!!

Oh, DSL, please don't go. I didn't realise what was happening when l was being estranged. I had not heard of that word before. Your postings have made me realise that l should have reacted differently at the time and l think may help others going through it.
I don't find it any "puzzlement " that you or PF post on here.

Im so sad to read this.

DSL.
Nearly estranged is hellish we walked that path for many years before full estrangement from our beloved grandchild.. You know in your gut it's going to happen and uts with you 24 7.

Your positive perception of estranged has been a marvelous contribution to this thread and has given a few of us im sure a difference perspective and strategies to help us carry on i know your ideas have resonated with me I've changed my mindset hugely because of them. We need different ideas to get help in this situation we cant just stagnate as I was.
I think everyone who has experienced estrangement has a voice. Im thinking too of PF her posts are so welcome with all the chanfes shex experienced.

Oh DSL you've made me cry again, but I do understand
.

Smiles, Whiff.

Thank you so much for your spirited defence. I very much appreciate your kindness and compassion.

I still feel thst I simply havent the energy left to keep having to defend myself against the tyke of comments that Yogin has raised.

I need to rest, take care of myself and heal, 2021 has been the worst year of my life and I need to regroup and recover. I can't do that if I am continually having to justify my existence on this thread. I already feel diminished and depleted.

I cannot and will not allow anyone else to hack away at my self esteem. I still have some pride left. I now need to focus on trying to make my relationship with my son work and to rebuild my life.

Good luck everyone, yes you too Yogin, I bear you no ill will but your post was unkind and right now I don't need any more unkindness in my life.

I've pm'd you DSL I understand but can only reiterate my heart felt plea for you not to leave.

I agree with your last paragraph Smiles completely.

I hoped my post wouldn't be misunderstood, but see it has.

Happy New Year to everyone. Hope it's a good one for all of us.

Yoginmeisje. You raise an interesting point and it is one which I have already discussed with Smiles.

I wrote to Smiles and said that I would withdraw from the thread because I had managed to (sort of) reconcile with my son. She expressly asked me not to because she said it was good for posters on here to know that reconciliation can happen and that some posters might be interested to learn about the methods I have been using in order to engineer that reconciliation.

I did worry that some people might be upset or that my presence on here might be deemed inappropriate and that some might think I was somehow flaunting my somewhat limited success in reestablishing a relationship with my son.

I am sorry if my presence here offends you.

Similarly, I am also sorry if my introducing the concept of Warrior Queens also offends you. It started as a little self deprecating joke. It was never a call to arms but just something lighthearted to try and overcome the pain and anguish of what I was going through at the time. It was never meant to upset anyone.

Oddly enough it seemed to lift everyone's spirits a little. It has become something of a fond running joke on here. It's taken a life of its own, it gives us a few much needed laughs when we feel low.

And yet, in a way you are right although I think it's wrong to say it's taken the thread in a different direction. The thread is, by and large, still as supportive and compassionate as ever. Rather I think it has added another dimension to the thread in that in a funny way the whole daft idea of us being Warrior Queens helps gives some of us the courage to stand up for ourselves and face the bullies.

Again, what can I say.... I can only apologise if you find my humour inappropriate and have been upset by my levity.

To clarify my situation.

I am not fully reconciled with my son. What we have is an uneasy truce not a lasting peace. My DIL has completed half her task, she has destroyed the relationship between my two sons and she is hell bent on freezing me out. So far I'm hanging on by a thread.

My son and DIL went did estrange me for 10 weeks. I vowed I would never allow my DIL to set foot in my home ever again. My son eventually offered an olive branch which I have gingerly accepted. I relented and have welcomed my DIL back into my home. It is a very difficult thing to do. I would rather not but I have done so in order to try and have a relationship with my son.

Currently that relationship is very delicate and I am in a very precarious position. My DIL is just biding her time, ready to estrange at the slightest excuse. I am trying not to give her one whilst at the same time trying to maintain my integrity. It's an extremely difficult balancing act.

Yes I saw my semi estranged son on Christmas Day but it was a very difficult day. I haven't gone into detail on here but I did say she had "left her manners at home". That was an understatement. Again I wont bore you all to death with every single slight and insult I received that day but suffice it to say I was utterly drained and exhausted and frankly relieved when they went home.

Sorry to say Yogin.....but Christmas Day with my son was not the happy jolly time was had by all occasion you appear to think it was. Far from it.

Your unkind remarks have only served to prove my fears were justified. There will always be someone on here who thinks my presence is inappropriate and that I have no right to be here. I can take a hint.

Sorry Smiles but I am leaving the thread. My situation is difficult enough without having to explain and defend myself and justify my presence on here. I am tired and weary and I am going to concentrate on healing myself.

Iam64. thank you for springing to my defence, that was very kind and very much appreciated.

I would like to take this opportunity for thanking Smiles for starting this wonderful thread and to all of you who have given me support, compassion and friendship.

I sincerely wish you well and hope that 2022 brings you peace and joy.

Goodby my dear friends.

'Happy New Year' everyone.

I agree Iam "nearly estranged is a dreadful place to be" as is living with the real possibility that it will happen which, and I hope DSL doesn't mind my saying this, is where she is at the moment.

There is also that awful 'no man's land' where she was for some time, not knowing if you have been estranged and when or if that final blow will come.

For me, that she has so far managed to dodge that bullet shows what a good and positive thread this is. I know that our advice and support has really helped and the knowledge DSL has acquired over just a few months about narcissism, and her successful implementation of the coping mechanisms she has learned about, have provided us all with a wealth of information and knowledge.

For me, our 'Warrior Queen' mantra has been a positive and empowering one. I think it served us well when we had those two very unpleasant posts the other day, we came out 'fighting', refused to be guilt tripped, to be frightened into sharing honestly with one another and refused to be silenced because of the supposedly negative way we are viewed and talked about elsewhere.

I say supposedly because Mr. S. did some detective work yesterday on the two sites where this is supposedly happening, and there was nothing at all detrimental about this thread or those who post here.

The journey of reconciliation is not an easy one as we've seen very recently from PF. I want to be here for all the friends made through the good times and the bad because that for me, is what friendship means.

The thought of anyone's reconciliation not being successful is too painful to contemplate but if that, God forbid were to happen, how could we be there for someone? How could someone feel they could come back when they need us, if they didn't feel welcome because they'd reconciled?

Yogin no I haven't though DerbyshireLass shouldn't be here. A lot of her posts resonant with me. Things I took no notice of at the time because I was just happy to be with my son and daughter in law and then my first grandson came along. Because of living so far away and only seeing both of my children every few months.
I am afraid I let things be done and said by my son and daughter in law that I should have nipped in the bud there and then. But as I said I was happy to be with them .

Also after my husband died had both parents and my mother in law to look after. Looking back never had time to analyse any ones motives for doing or saying things. I put everyone's wants and needs before my own. But that's how I had always been.

It wasn't until after my mom died and I got jaundice and was very ill that I had time to think what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Then to find out I could have died was a shock but it's what I needed. It was my wake up call . Time to put myself first.

Both my son and daughter told me it was about time. My daughter did joke she thought she would have to stage an invention to get me too do more with my life.

I changed my goals in life. But I am still the same mom, mother in law and grandmother I have always be. But I am living my life to the full not just existing.

DerbyshireLass's posts have changed from her first ones where she was very lost and didn't know what was happening. Where she felt alone and dreading estrangement. Now she is stronger and if estrangement does happen with her son she knows she can handle it.

Why shouldn't we be Warrior Queens . I personally love the idea.

Yogin I know you are an old hand here along with Smiles but for some of us it's still early days. And I know when I have my wobbles I have a place to come and not feel alone. Reading all the posts help me cope.

Wishing you all a happy and healthy 2022. ?

I don’t know enough about DerbyshireLass’s family but being in contact with some adult children, doesn’t mean individuals aren’t estranged by others.
‘Nearly estranged’ is a dreadful place to be. The shock that it could happen, the attempts to do anything to prevent it happening.
Yogi, This is the first day of a new year. I’m puzzled that you would start it by being unkind to Derbyshire

HAPPY NEW YEAR to all. I wish everyone a much better 2022 with peace of mind, happiness and health.

Is anyone else thinking the same puzzlement as me?
Derbyshirelass saw her son, d.i.l & GC on Xmas day and her other son & girlfriend on Boxing day, that's not estrangement. I fully understand why she is posting here and certainly don't think for one moment she shouldn't, but nearly estranged is not estranged. I am not 'having a go' at you DSL I'm really not, but facts are facts. And all this 'warrior queen' nonsense has taken this thread down a different pathway in my opinion.

QuoteDerbyshireLass Fri 31-Dec-21 14:15:56

^I do however think it somewhat disingenuous for people who have not suffered estrangement to feel they are in a position to criticise or offer unsolicited advice to those who are struggling with broken hearts and smashed lives.

It is like anything else in this life, if you have not personally experienced something you cannot really understand how it feels. Sounds trite but you really do have to "walk a mile in someone else shoes" to know what they are going through.

One of the difficult parts of estrangement is the tiny glimmer of hope that one day there might be a reconciliation^

And a very happy new year to you all from me too. Hope it holds happy times!

Happy new year everyone xx

Happy new year to all.