Daughter Detox ~ Recovering from an Unloving Mother

Smileless2012

I agree that primarily comments should be supportive and I think they have been.

Posters talking about positive experiences doesn't shift the purpose of the thread and shouldn't make those looking for support feel they don't have a voice.

Threads meander even those that are essentially for support and there's certainly been no deliberate attempt to make anyone on this thread feel uncomfortable.

What's shared isn't necessarily going to be relevant to everyone, and may only be relevant to the person who is sharing it which is what happens on an open forum.

Smileless All that you posted is true, no need for only negative experiences. Good Grief.

I agree that primarily comments should be supportive and I think they have been.

Posters talking about positive experiences doesn't shift the purpose of the thread and shouldn't make those looking for support feel they don't have a voice.

Threads meander even those that are essentially for support and there's certainly been no deliberate attempt to make anyone on this thread feel uncomfortable.

What's shared isn't necessarily going to be relevant to everyone, and may only be relevant to the person who is sharing it which is what happens on an open forum.

This is a support thread, so primarily comments should be supportive towards those who have ACEs and what those are.

Conversation should not be shifted towards those who had positive experience of what someone else found negative, as it leads to upset and confusion for the person who is seeking support when they feel they don't have a voice.

I'm just mentioning this in the hope that it brings some awareness to how others can be impacted by shifting from support to our own positive personal or experience or from what we have heard from others where it isn't actualy relevant to the person seeking support.

In conversation, if you find yourself feeling confused, unsupported and as if another is putting their own needs or voice before yours, it's best to take a break from them.

Yes riete there was a purpose to my post you've quoted, it was in response to the post you made on Monday @ 16.23. If you take a look at that post, the purpose of mine should be clear but in case it isn't, I'll explain.

You'd said that there were posters on this thread suggesting their positive experience (of BS?) or the experience of family and friends was more or equally relevant to the experience of others. You also suggested that those whose experience was vastly different, was sweeping aside the feelings of others. I haven't seen that on this thread.

You also reminded us that this is a support thread so I pointed out that experiences both good and bad are shared on the other support thread. When that happens there, it isn't done to sweep aside the feelings of others, so I don't understand why you feel that is the case, when it happens here. That being said is not to invalidate your feelings or the feelings of anyone else.

You appeared to be suggesting that this thread is not being treated as a support thread should be. I disagree, and referred to the relatively recent unpleasantness on the estrangement support thread which was without a doubt totally inappropriate.

Not sure why you found my definition of forgiveness weird. You can google the psychological definition for yourself if you want to make some sense of it. There's no need for you to respond further on the subject, I wasn't sure that you'd seen my post but you obviously have.

It's behind him and he's learnt from it. He will be never have a good relationship with his parents, their values are too different. He purposely put that away with diversionary tactics as it wasn't going to define him and eventually he was ok with it. He enjoys life, it didn't make him a victim, he often says he looks at families out together, having each other's backs and says that would have been good.
I lost my lovely mom young. Thats a hard one.

Smileless2012

Really riete have the things you've referred too in your post @ 16.23 on this thread, because TBH I haven't seen any. I really don't think that someone posting of an experience they found positive, or friends and family did that someone else didn't, is suggesting that theirs is more or equally relevant.

Or suggesting that the feelings of those whose experience was vastly different are sweeping aside your feelings.

We are all aware that this is a support thread, and as you'll have seen from the support thread for anyone whose life has been affected by estrangement, as I'm sure you posted there, a variety of experiences, both good and bad are shared.

There certainly hasn't been any unpleasantness on this thread thank goodness, that was witnessed else where and not that long ago.

You asked earlier for someone to start the ball rolling on the issue of forgiveness which I have done. Maybe you've missed it, it comes after yours and I would be interested on your own thoughts on the subject.

For me, I think we do have to try to find a way of living with the events of our past and TBF that is what those who contribute to the estrangement forum do appear to be doing.

That doesn't mean that the significance of those events and the pain they caused ever disappear. For some it does diminish over time but even when that happens, it never goes away completely.

No, I couldn't have sent our boys to BS either Allsorts. It's very sad that someone looking back on their own experience feels they were dumped and hated it.

Do you know if he ever talked to his parents about it and whether or not being sent to BS had a detrimental affect on his relationship with his parents?

i'm trying to make sense of what you've said here, but i can't. was there a purpose?
i wonder if introducing "the support thread for anyone whose life has been affected by estrangement" confused what you were saying?

regardless, i absolutely don't think it's for you to decide how i feel. or if i feel that my feelings were swept aside.

and no, i didn't miss your post about forgiveness. thank you for "starting the ball rolling". i did find your definition of the term forgiveness a bit weird, but when i've made some sense of it i may be able to respond to you.

Allsorts

Reite, we all acknowledge abuse is wrong, to abuse your own child is the worst. I have children, you do all you can to give them a secure happy life, to ensure they are safe and have a good start and foundation. Why anyone would want to forgive and have a relationship with their tormentor, their own parent, I don't understand, is it really necessary to forgive in such circumstances? To have a good life and if you are lucky enough to have your own family, they are the future they come first, you couldn't let your children have an abuser round them. That's the point I was making. the abused is not at fault.

i'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here, or even if your post is directed at me?
i have not been advocating forgiveness, although i did comment on the fact that the discussion had reached that topic.
perhaps you could clarify which of my posts (if any) you are referring to, and what you are actually asking me.or disagreeing with.

Ok, it did go through. I have reported my second post so they can delete it since I said it better the first time.

Ugh. I typed a post and then got an error message.

Allsorts, everyone has their own path. I was able to heal enough that I am now helping to take care of my mom. Forgiveness is not necessary to heal.

I do not force my children to have a relationship with her. When they heal, they can decide to forgive her or not. My relationship with my mother is mine alone.

We all have our own path Allsorts. I was able to heal enough to have contact with my mother now, but I do not force my children to have contact with her. It works for some people, doesnt for others. Neither is right or wrong.

Once they heal on their terms, they can decide what they want to do. My relationship with her is mine alone right now and always will be.

It is also not necessary to forgive in order to heal.

No the abused are definitely not at fault and I really admire those who have found the strength to heal from abuse and move from victim to survivor

Some are lost to the cycle

Reite, we all acknowledge abuse is wrong, to abuse your own child is the worst. I have children, you do all you can to give them a secure happy life, to ensure they are safe and have a good start and foundation. Why anyone would want to forgive and have a relationship with their tormentor, their own parent, I don't understand, is it really necessary to forgive in such circumstances? To have a good life and if you are lucky enough to have your own family, they are the future they come first, you couldn't let your children have an abuser round them. That's the point I was making. the abused is not at fault.

imaround

I was thinking about what you said Smileless, about not forgiving. I realized that maybe the reason I don't dwell on if I should forgive is because I don't feel bitterness, anger or resentment.

Now you gave me something to think about.

I don't have any either for me, only really when my children tell me something they haven't told me before

I just feel sorry for her

I feel sorry for anyone who has to bully another to feel better about themselves... it must be like having an addiction. The fix never lasts and it's back to being miserable

imaround.

Night sky, I’ve no problem with you disagreeing with me but calling my comment about men I know very well ‘ridiculous’ was rude and unnecessary.
I did not say no men who went to BS send their sons. I said nine if the men I know did so.
The men I’m talking about are emotionally intelligent and honest enough to say that they continue to struggle with intimacy.
I’m not in the habit of posting untruths. This is my experience. Different than yours but no less worth while.

I was thinking about what you said Smileless, about not forgiving. I realized that maybe the reason I don't dwell on if I should forgive is because I don't feel bitterness, anger or resentment.

Now you gave me something to think about.

We were always good enough

Very good point VS. We are enough.

Iam64

I have a few women friends who enjoyed boarding school.
I’ve never met a man who wasn’t wretched at BS. I have 5 close male friends now aged 50-73. Without exception, they hated BS and still feel traumatised by their time there. They still struggle with intimacy, would never send their own children to BS

My DH boarded from the age of seven and enjoyed most of it as did many of his friends. It’s not true that men who were boarders don’t send their own sons to boarding school. We know many who did just that and their sons are all quite normal and leading interesting lives. Our own sons were day boys at a local boarding school. One of our sons boarded quite happily in his final year at his prep school.

How do you know that these men still struggle with intimacy, you’re not married to them. What a ridiculous thing to say.

"we can leave that to God" yes as a Christian I understand that Iam but also as a Christian you can be made to feel pressurised into giving forgiveness.

I agree that forgiveness isn't necessary as a part of healing, but if being unable to forgive means that the negative emotions I referred to earlier impact on ones life, it can hinder the healing process.

Even were forgiveness necessary, and I don't agree it is as I shared with the article, it's hard to forgive someone while they are still causing any suffering and given the physical health problems caused by ACEs that may never happen.

I forgive myself though, for allowing n abuser to have a hold over me for too long and for allowing others to use trigger buttons she installed in childhood to hurt me as an adult.

A work in progress is good enough

I find Forgiveness endlessly intriguing. I’ve tried to find a better way to describe my feelings about forgiveness. ‘ Intriguing’ could sound as though I’m emotionally distancing from the idea of forgiveness but that wouldn’t be accurate
Someone I have great affection and respect for suggested it isn’t our job to forgive if that’s beyond us, we can leave that to God. The person had a strong Christian faith and of course forgiveness is significant in thst faith

Forgiving a stranger who abused us is probably less challenging than forgiving a parent. I don’t believe forgiveness is necessary as part of healing. I do believe learning how to take care of ourselves, to forgive ourselves for not getting everything right. Is essential

I agree imaround that we all have our own path and if it's the right one for us, then it's the right path to follow.

What you've said about forgiveness is the same for me in relation to my abuser and for me, as long as not forgiving doesn't lead to a life time of bitterness, anger and a desire for revenge, I don't think it matters whether forgiveness is there or not.

I found what you said about you realising that what happened wasn't really personal very interesting. In relation to my abuser I'd never considered that. You've given me something to think about so thank you.

Smileless: That is why we all have our own path. Of course there are no answers to be had sometimes. And of course people can gain strength and confidence without the answers and understanding.

Riete: Obviously, as I stated, each person has their own path. Mine fit the article exactly, which surprised me.

Once I estranged, I was able to take a breath and heal, then gain the strength and confidence. Only then was I ready to try and understand why my mother is the way she is.

I knew she was a victim of her mother, but did not fully get the depth of it until I had the freedom to slow down and look out of her line of fire.

Forgiveness is still an undecided topic for me. I am not sure really if I have forgiven her, or even if I want/need to. But understanding her has allowed me to realize that what happened was not really personal.

What understanding has done for me is allow me to see her as the damaged child she was, which led to her being who she is now.

It is a difficult journey that has taken me several years and lots of therapy.

imaround

I finally had a chance to read the article on 7 steps VS, while sitting here after my 3 mile walk waiting for some Motrin to kick in.

I 100% agree with them all. I spent most of the last year on step 6 and 7, which has helped me come to terms with my past and has allowed me to help take care of my mom after my father's death.

To me, understanding was key. But I had to go through the other steps to rebuild my strength and confidence first.

thanks for that imaround.
more when i've read it myself.