Daughter Detox ~ Recovering from an Unloving Mother

Forgiveness means different things to people. In a psychological sense, it's about overcoming negative emotions like resentment and a desire for revenge so in this context it's not about forgiving someone for something they have done, it's about freeing oneself of these negative emotions.

Forgiveness in relation to forgiving someone for what they have done is in my experience much harder, especially if that person hasn't sought forgiveness.

Several years ago I heard an Archbishop (can't remember his name) talking about forgiveness and he said that to be forgiven
you need the three R's; remorse, repentance and restitution. So unless it is asked for, the act of forgiveness may help the one doing the forgiving to free themselves from negative emotions, but makes no difference to the person who has done them wrong.

I agree with what you say about separating abuse into too many offshoots as childhood abuse takes many forms. The majority of parents I'm sure, who take the decision to send their child to boarding school believe it's in the best interests of their child, so it's not done as an act of abuse.

Re boarding schools... for some, the boarding school experience and being sent there CAN be part of their estrangement 'story' from their mother/parents. Part of their mothers "toxicity" might be that decision to send them away.

However, for others the boarding school experience and the impact of that is not related to a "toxic mother", the decisions made by parents might be viewed as misguided or whatever but not toxic. The outcome of boarding school might well be childhood trauma resulting in adult issues, but estrangement may or may not be part of that.

On that basis, there is I suppose a place for boarding school to be discussed on this thread re the common theme of potential ACES but maybe also a separate BS thread re impacts that do not include estrangement. BS threads tend to get derailed though as they bring out a need to "justify" ones experiences maybe. I don't know really.

Have to go out now but I'm pondering on all this!

the other thing we seem to be looking at is boarding schools. (i wonder if we need to look at the aces first?)

it may be that boarding school warrants a separate estrangement thread, but i'm not sure that we really want/need to separate out into too many offshoots. there are many many forms of childhood abuse, and aces, and my view is that we should probably stand shoulder to shoulder with our sisters.

and so we arrive at forgiveness. i know a lot of people stand by forgiveness, and are absolutely certain that it's the best thing since sliced bread. well so it may be, but i'm not utterly convinced, and i'm pretty d....d certain it isn't the right thing for everyone.
maybe we should take a proper look at what we mean by forgiveness. does anyone want to start the ball rolling?

psychcentral.com/pro/exhausted-woman/2016/07/7-steps-in-healing-from-a-narcissistic-parent#4

I would add something to this though:

Forgiveness is individual. If you cannot forgive there is nothing wrong with that, you might need to not forgive to stay away.

Forgiveness does not mean allowing an abusive person back into your life.

Forgiveness for you might mean forgiving yourself for putting up with bad treatment for so long.

Thanks VS. I will read those when I settle this evening.

Here are a couple of articles about ACEs and how they impact mental and physical health.

mft.nhs.uk/rmch/services/camhs/young-people/adverse-childhood-experiences-aces-and-attachment/

developingchild.harvard.edu/resources/aces-and-toxic-stress-frequently-asked-questions/

People don't have to recognise an ACE to have been impacted negatively by it. Physical punishment would be one example.

That and corporal punishment

Iam64

I was curious about the difference in the way the men and women I know experienced BS. I ve seen no research but, it’s clear boys in BS were often sexually abused by staff or older boys. Female sex offenders exist but often in tandem with a male.

In the 1990s, when local authorities were finally allowed full legal access to investigate concerns and allegations involving private and boarding schools (it was difficult before that), certainly the boy's schools had more of a problem with physical and sexual abuse than the girl's schools appeared to.

Perhaps that is a factor,

Iam64

The BS issue maybe taking this too far from the OP. None of the women I know have blamed their mothers for sending them to BS, although they all went because father’s work meant periods living out of England.
Mothers do seem more likely to be held responsible for family dynamics.

Yes I think it might be Iam64 which wasn't the intention. The connection was the ACES. But it isn't a given that boarding school meant "toxic mother" even whilst other similarities may be there so I hope thread is not derailed.

The BS issue maybe taking this too far from the OP. None of the women I know have blamed their mothers for sending them to BS, although they all went because father’s work meant periods living out of England.
Mothers do seem more likely to be held responsible for family dynamics.

I was curious about the difference in the way the men and women I know experienced BS. I ve seen no research but, it’s clear boys in BS were often sexually abused by staff or older boys. Female sex offenders exist but often in tandem with a male.

Perhaps girls are more resilient, or perhaps the girl's schools had a gentler regime.

Even in the royal family, Charles loathed boarding school, Anne says it was the best days of her life.

I suppose BS, like care homes, children homes etc., vary wildly in the quality of care, as well.

And, of course, many children in normal day/state schools hate school, and dread attending. For many reasons.

That makes me sad. I know there were times I wished I was sent to boarding school, but in hindsight I am glad I didn't.

Yes, long term issues with families. Interestingly, two remain very angry with their mothers. One mother was a doctor, the other a successful business woman. The men both express anger they were cared for by aupairs, then off to BS age 7.
Two married, both in unstable marriages, three unmarried and never had long term relationships.
They’re lovely, interesting and well educated men, with successful careers. They share that confident presentation I’m used to seeing in privately educated people.
Off topic but - it’s hard not to feel the number of privately, BS educated men in our government isn’t linked to the mess they’re making

That is interesting Iam64. I wonder if my bond with my sister would be as good if we had been sent to boarding school. I doubt it.

I also wonder, how is the bond with these men you know with their families? Did the experience cause long term issues with family closeness?

I have a few women friends who enjoyed boarding school.
I’ve never met a man who wasn’t wretched at BS. I have 5 close male friends now aged 50-73. Without exception, they hated BS and still feel traumatised by their time there. They still struggle with intimacy, would never send their own children to BS

Sometimes we have to heal without bullying parents and sometimes we have to heal despite bullying parents

But either way, healing is possible

Riete; I totally understand having to make that decision. It is a huge undertaking that needs to be done, but is now the right time?

ACES was not something I have read much about, but will do so now. I am glad that the scientific community, and much of society as a whole, is recognizing that trauma as a child can and does affect adult lives and can lay dormant until middle age. Younger generations are also recognizing that good mental health is a part of a healthy lifestyle.

I do not have experience with boarding school. Where I am in the US it is not a common thing, though it is more on the east coast where there is big money. I have never understood it TBH, but do understand that in some societies it is a normal occurrence.

hi again.
i've finally finished reading the 350+ posts on here, most of which have been interesting, informative, enlightening. we're now at aces (thank you, and for the whole thread, violetsky) and boarding school (thank you madgran).
i now need to catch up on some of the links kindly included.
"together" we've pored over many aspects of childhood abuse, and "where to go from here". for me there's a big question of whether this is the right moment to put other aspects of my life on temporary hold, while i read and discuss and plumb the depths. there are certainly many people watching/contributing to this thread with insightful and positive understanding to contribute.
on the other hand ...
i'll be back!

Lucy

How horrible

Agedp1953

How fantastic for you that you did not see anyone dealing with issues at boarding school.

I must admit, but find this whole conversation about toxicity and middle age trauma a bit of a modern day concoction where abuse can be applied to almost any and every situation. Goodness knows what todays children weaned on this stuff will come out with in the future.

I find this however so completely degrading to those that did, and to the younger generation. I’m sure you didn’t mean to be so dismissive though.

LucyLocket I'm so sorry you were left in a situation you weren't happy in

I wasn't suggesting self denial, everyone is different. I was referring to Nick Duffell's book and research and findings.

Yes I have experience.

Interestingly many boarders never get to that point.

You appear to be saying that there are many who won’t admit they were traumatised by boarding school presumably because they are in self denial ? Is this what you mean? Do you have experience of this or is it just your opinion?