Letter to my Estranged Child

Oh yes, that's right Smileless. YES very hard.

It explains in the video link above how they'll use the kids against us. It really is cruel and yet I still am thinking about him. I know, it's one way

Oh Onward it's so hard isn't it. How about just sending a card. There really is nothing heartless about not sending anything. The heartless award goes to our EAC, not to us.

Yes, that's it theworriedwell. I always think the phrase 'the tyranny of sensitivity' is very apt when thinking about narcissists. They are acutely aware of how anything and everything affects them, yet have little or no empathy with others.

Thanks for explaining Smileless
YES you've got it, TheWorriedWell
Here's a link if you want to read www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-legacy-distorted-love/202010/understanding-narcissistic-injury

I'm leaving this here for anyone whose child is or might be a narcissist www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgAqZT5Yvv0

and I'm leaving this here for anyone whose son or daughter has sided with a narcissist www.youtube.com/watch?v=62_z9RLb0lY

for all you warrior queens!

I have still not decided what to do about sending GC a Christmas gift. It feels really heartless to not even send EAC a card or anything, but then I remind myself how they have treated us, robbing us of our GC and causing untold pain. I doubt they have any self reflection or empathy to be able to do this. And yet here I am feeling bad about not sending them anything even though they won't acknowledge me.

So they were offended by something that wasn't mean to be offensive and because they are a narcissist that causes them some sort of injury? Is that it?

It's something that's perceived by a narcissist as being inflicted on them, that if they weren't a narcissist, they would view differently because it damages their defence mechanisms and pride and invalidates their own self worth theworriedwell.

Perhaps you could think of yourself as being powerless rather than hopeless Onward. Being powerless is when something is out of your control, you are powerless to effect change through no fault of your own.

Seeing yourself as hopeless puts the onus, the entire responsibility for what has and is happening on your shoulders and that is clearly not the case with your sonx.

I apologise for my ignorance Onward but what is a narcissistic injury?

I will try to look it up but I've got to get GS to football in a minute so don't have much time.

I think a lot can be attributed to Narcissistic injury, unfortunately. He did accuse me of being a Narc, but after educating myself by listening to multiple Youtube videos and reading books on the subject of Narcissism, I have come to the conclusion that I have accidentally given him a narcissistic injury and that it's him rather than me who is the narc. I suppose that's Narcissistic projection for you.

After doing my research, I feel more hopeless that he will ever see anything good in me. I have done my best. Maybe I should not even send GC a gift. Maybe I should just fade into insignificance.

True, Smileless thanks. I don't really know what to do other than not letting my GC miss out, even if they don't know who it's from.

As far as writing a card or not writing a card, all advice considered and welcomed, pro's and cons etc.

"Probably more fool me" no, not at all Onward. Do whatever makes YOU feel comfortable. It isn't about him, it's about YOU.

TheWorriedWell Yes that's a problem. At the moment GC are preschool age, which is easy to buy for. For their birthdays I sent vouchers. I found it amusing that my DiL told me that my son had chosen the gifts she sent me pics of- and he had chosen the exact things he had had when a toddler, that I'd bought him. He must have some good memories, then? DiL made a point of telling me it was EAC who had chosen the gifts and I told her that he'd had the same. She messaged me every day for a few days and then went silent. I was never sure if he found out and stopped her. Its definitely going to get harder but , one year at a time!

Thanks Smileless they did pass on the birthday gifts and DiL sent me pics. It was my son who ignored me completely. I have accidentally rang EAC a few times (not in the last few months though) and he didn't pick up or respond. I have bought the Christmas gifts for GC. I'll send them nearer the time, not expecting anything.

I haven't yet decided whether to send EAC and DiL a card or not. I have bought them small gifts which can easily be regifted (or used in the event of not being needed) in case they miraculously turn up. I seriously doubt this would happen but will be prepared in case. I will keep an open heart... Probably more fool me.

I hope your GC receive their presents Onward. All you can do is send them and hope their parents have the decency to pass them on.

There's simply no way of knowing if you contact your son it will push him further away. I've seen EAC complain that the parents they estranged had just given up on them, because they hadn't pursued contact.

Do whatever makes you feel comfortable. It isn't about him, it's about you and if you do contact him, you can only hope that he receives it in the spirit of love with which it's made.

freedomfromthepast I hope their relationship improves. I feel hopeful.

OnwardandUpward my DH used to send present to his stepson, he was only married for 10 months but he thought the world of him. A friend told him his ex would take the labels off and say they were from her. I couldn't understand him still sending them but he said he would rather the child got them even if he didn't know who they were from.

It gets hard as eventually you don't know the child, I think my husband did it for about 7 years but then realised he had no idea what the boy was interested in.

It is very hard.

Thanks Freedomfromthepast Thanks for agreeing with me. Unfortunately all our other family members think that ignoring the child is the right thing to do No child deserves to have no gifts at Christmas, whatever their parent has done.

Yes, you are doing really well Worried, I hope so too.

Hugs to you onward. You are in a horrible situation. I wish I had sage words of wisdom for you. Agree that the Grandchildren should not suffer.

Worried: you are doing well taking him in and allowing him the freedom needed to grow into adulthood. I hope his relationship with his mother does improve in time.

The purpose of my thread is an honest expression of me not knowing how to deal with Christmas when my ES won't pick up the phone or answer messages. The last conversation we had, he made it clear he didn't see me as part of his family anymore because he felt that the covid jab had changed my DNA making me not a relative anymore

I have deliberated how to contact him this Christmas, if at all because I've read on many estrangement site that it might push him further away if I try to make contact before he's ready. I think the fact that it's Christmas makes it worse not being in contact. But I feel like saying anything might be misconstrued and saying nothing might be better? Either way me and Mr O will be sending a gift to GC because why should they suffer through their parent's choices?

Thanks Socksandsocks01 I'm sorry your attempts to have contact have been ignored. Thats what happened to me earlier in the year and again a few months ago. I am going to send GC a gift because they are Pre school age and none of this is their choice. None of the rest of the family is sending a gift, so ours will be all our GC gets apart from his parents.

Multicolourswapshop {Hmm] Seriously? "try to love more!" "Have a gentle reconcilliation"? How, when he won't even answer his phone or messages? Please tell!

No the drugs didnt cause his MH. He has a long history of MH, was very paranoid before taking hallucinogenic drugs. But, he does not admit to MH so does not accept therapy pr help.

VioletSky

OnwardandUpward when I say this I often get told its a contradiction but for me there is always a way back. I could reconsile in the right conditions if my mother were to heal herself and take responsibility.

I also know that my part in that is over. It is not my place to push her to seek that help and I know there is no chance that she will.

So I live with two truths, I could forgive but I know she will not ask to be forgiven.

All the time that my close family comes to me from a place where my estranging is worse than the reasons I did it, nothing can ever change.

I choose very carefully whose advice and influence I listen to because estrangement is not a good thing for anyone and I can't lock the door.. I just haven't left it open either.

It's great that you've not locked the door VioletSky. You sound very realistic and also open to change.
As people get older sometimes it seems less likely that they will change, but they can if they want to- and as more people talk about estrangement perhaps it will help people to open up.
You're right that estrangement isnt ideal for anyone.

JaneJudge

Onward, is your daughter in law worried too? do they have children?

It sounds quite complicated

Yes. It is quite complicated, but DiL and I cannot talk without him getting very upset. She cannot get "outside" help unless she seeks it herself. He dislikes me having friends or being close to anyone, so when he was talking to me it was very intense as he tried so hard to convince me not to get vaccinated. I am guessing he has isolated her, too.

Unfortunately in my family there is a history of MH and also coercive control/narcissism and he does seem to have those genes. In a way I am enjoying the peace from not being in contact- I also respect his boundaries. I do miss family times though.

Thanks for the kind messages.

Chewbacca is right theworriedwell you have nothing to beat yourself up for.

Not only have you given this wonderful young man security in your loving home, you have also done all that you can to ensure his continued relationship with his mother.

What an amazing GM you are.

You have nothing to beat yourself up for theworriedwell, you've been an ace grandmother; you were there when he needed you most and you've already set the wheels in motion to be there for him well into the future. And you've done all that whilst keeping his parent in the picture too and that's never an easy task. You've done remarkably well with your boy! Everything to be proud of!

Thanks Smileless, I am proud of him. Not sure about me, I wonder if I should have done something when he was younger. As I said when it isn't obvious abuse, no bruises or broken bones. I think the stories about Arthur have made me question myself, did I stand back like people who saw what was happening with Arthur. Not the same I know, I think I'm just in a beating myself up mood.

Well giving myself a shake and reminding myself we have time to turn it around.

It sounds as of he's doing incredibly well with your love and support theworriedwell. You must be very proud of him and should be proud of yourself too.

I think it is hard to let them do things for the first time but we have to do it don't we. We can't treat them like prisoners. I was married as a teenager so to me it was so bizarre that he had no say in anything in his life.

His mother didn't grow up like this, she is headstrong and even if her parents had tried I don't think they'd have succeeded.

I am happy with his progress, he always seemed a bit flat, to say depressed is probably taking it to far but heading that way. He is so different after just a few months, I think it is seven months now. School report is also drastically different this term, much more positive. He is bright and has always done well but had a bit of reputation of challenging authority at school, I suppose that was his bid for some control.

Fingers crossed going forward.