Sign for grandchildren

MissAdventure

Abusive parents can also leave their adult children with lasting issues, too, of course.

Considering how many abusive grandparents people here claim to know (or presume to) that must be a hell of a lot of messed up offspring.

Yep. Agreed.

And it stands to reason that the abusive parents who are now grandparents shouldn't get the chance to traumatize a second generation.

Many people I know who are dealing with abusive childhoods are doing their best to heal and overcome. They KNOW they're messed up, and are working their tails off to ensure that their kids don't have the same trauma.

Somehow, "Well, you're messed up, so until you're perfect you don't get to keep your abusers away from your kids." doesn't quite work.

Abusive parents can also leave their adult children with lasting issues, too, of course.

Considering how many abusive grandparents people here claim to know (or presume to) that must be a hell of a lot of messed up offspring.

Well that's one thing we can agree on, at least.

That's what we have been saying all along MissA

Abusive parents don't magically stop being abusive when they become grandparents

So, there are abusive parents, violet.
Of course there are.
Every generation has it's malfunctioning people within it.
But again, it isn't THE reason that some grandparents want contact with the grandchildren.

An example that deserves consideration MissA because as we all know abusers do what ever it takes to keep their abusive behaviour hidden.

The genuine need to protect children is one reason, but certainly not the only one.

No MissA they raise children differently. Scapegoats and golden children. Some children escape, heal, educate themselves and do differently. Some children normalise their upbringing, learn those behaviours and carry them on thus repeating the cycle.

Nobody has used it as the basis for grandparents seeing their grandchildren, though.
It's just been mentioned as an example of why parents may want to stop others seeing the results of their abuse.

Of course, you also can't possibly believe that there are a multitude of abusive grandparents and they have all raised perfect adult children.

MercuryQueen

GPR is one of the only instances I can think of that directly takes rights away from one party and grants them to another.

It is an erosion of parental rights. There's no way around that.

I've seen two contradictory arguments for GPR - one, that grandparents can protect against abusive parents, and that's why it's needed.

Two, that abusive grandparents are so rare that they're not really a threat and courts can be counted on to weed them out, so it's not something to worry about with GPR.

Either abusers are rare, or they're not. You can't argue both. Abusers aren't confined to a generation, any more than they're confined by any other socio-economic status.

You can't use the spectre of child abuse to try and change laws in favour of GPR, then deny the existence of now grandparents having been child abusers.

This

Perhaps allowing you to see your GM kept the door open MissA helping them to eventually reconcile.

GPR is one of the only instances I can think of that directly takes rights away from one party and grants them to another.

It is an erosion of parental rights. There's no way around that.

I've seen two contradictory arguments for GPR - one, that grandparents can protect against abusive parents, and that's why it's needed.

Two, that abusive grandparents are so rare that they're not really a threat and courts can be counted on to weed them out, so it's not something to worry about with GPR.

Either abusers are rare, or they're not. You can't argue both. Abusers aren't confined to a generation, any more than they're confined by any other socio-economic status.

You can't use the spectre of child abuse to try and change laws in favour of GPR, then deny the existence of now grandparents having been child abusers.

Yes, I suppose it took a lot of teeth gritting on my mum's part, smileless.
They did make up again, luckily.

MissAdventure

GG65
Glad I have your permission to think what I like.
I appreciate it.

You’re most welcome!

You were fortunate that your mum didn't stop you from seeing your GM MissA. It's always nice to know that there are parents who will put their personal grievances to one side for the sake of their children.

GG65
Glad I have your permission to think what I like.
I appreciate it.

Not for me, particularly, as I'm not, and never have been estranged.
It's just a subject that intrigues me since I met my ex partner and saw what a convoluted mess his family was.

MissAdventure

I simply don't agree.
I think you are all wrong.

You can think whatever you like.

It doesn’t change the fact that grandparents don’t get to determine what is best for their grandchildren and parents don’t have to facilitate a relationship between their children and their grandparents if they choose not to.

This petition won’t change anything. Again, you can think whatever you like. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Children without grandparents in their life fare no better or worse than those with grandparents in their life. And that’s not just something I think, that’s a fact.

No worries MissA

I know it's an upsetting subject

It's fine for you to all think however you think.
No need to be sorry.
It's just differences of opinion.

We have parents against this, grandparents against this and estranged parents against this.

I'm sorry Missadventure but I don't think we are wrong

It's perfectly relevant, bibbity.
My mother didn't want to see her mother, just as you dont want to see your mother in law.
She didnt stop me from seeing her, though, as we were very close and I loved spending time with her.
She was a positive influence on me.

I simply could not care. And if anything this forum has solidified a lot of my beliefs as it is staggeringly clear why some posters are estranged from their own accounts! If their posts are them trying to make them look good it's very clear why parents need to preserve their rights.

I simply don't agree.
I think you are all wrong.

Good for her...don't see how that's relevant but very happy for you all...